Driver Licensing Requirements

[rfournelle]

Hi everyone!

I just recently purchased a 2009 Bighorn 3055RL. I am new at this and I can't wait to use it.

I have a GM driver's license and the dealer told me that there were no other licensing requirements to tow the trailer. Coincidentally, I have just received my renewal license and noted that it allows for a total weight combination (truck/trailer) of 11,000 kg (~24,000 lbs) with the towed vehicle not being more than 4,600 kg (~10,000 lbs). While the truck and trailer have a total weight of less than 11,000 kg (~24,000 lbs), the trailer weights ~ 6,400 kg (14,000 lbs).

I called the Ontario Ministry of Transportation. They did not sound like they were sure but indicated that I need a class A license, requiring that I pass a vision, knowledge and road tests as well as obtain a medical certificate. I'm not sure I got the right information.

Would someone from Ontario have already gone through this process and be aware of the requirements?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks, Bob

 

[bigredtruck]

License requirements

I know in BC if the trailer is over 10000 pounds, I have to get an endorsement on my license. I'm not sure when the commercial license kicks in - maybe when you have air brakes? DH has his commercial license and our current FW is under 10K pounds but the newer bigger one is off limits for me until I check that out.

 

[jmgratz]

Check with your local driver licensing department for the rules.

 

[wfwilson]

Driver Lic

I don't know how true this info is but I was told locally that as long as it is non commercial and for private use a G license is OK. I have a DM I also contacted the MOT by email. I received a call back and the person did not seem to know what was correct and I am sure the call was so MOT personal were not committed to having said anything and could not be traced.
Not much help but that is what happened to me. My truck as GVW 9900 lbs and the BH 14,400 LBS
Good luck trying to get an answer. I you get something in writing positive please let me know wfwilson1@yahoo.ca
Regards
Wayne

 

[Bob and Jennifer]

I was just checking on this as well.
From what I can determine, as of June 2008, there is a new classification designated "A R"
which is a restricted A class.
It appears that for the weights you indicated, that you take a road test and are licensed for the truck/trailer combination that you test in. I spoke to a lady at the help desk and she wasn't (helpful) so I plan to visit a drivers exam center to be sure.
Here's the dilemma though, with my G class it appears that I am not really legal, but I have to tow the unit to the testing location...
Will post when I have more details.

 

[rfournelle]

I, like you, was unlucky when calling MOT in finding someone to confirm the actual requirements.

I, subsequently, visited the Ottawa Drive Test Centre and they have confirmed the following requirements for drivers pulling a trailer/fifth wheel over 4,600 kg (~10,000 lbs):

1. Initial medical report with subsequent reports every 5 years for drivers less than 60 years old, every 3 years for those between 60 and 65, and every year after 65.

2. Knowledge test. This is the same test as drivers acquiring an unrestricted "A" license to drive 18+ wheelers (full commercial driver license). The test covers many areas that will not apply to those of us pulling a trailer/fifth wheel (defined as "house trailers" under the Highway Traffic Act (HTA)). The test is based on the official MTO Truck Handbook (about $20 at Driver Test Centres).

3. Road test. If you take the test with a 18+ wheelers and pass, you will be provided with an unrestricted class "A" diver's license and you can drive a truck/trailer combination commercially. If you take the test with your unit (truck and trailer/fifth wheel) and pass, you will be provided with an "A" license with an "R" restriction. The restriction is that you can only drive a "house trailer" for personal use.

I have provided the Drive Test Centre with my medical report and am studying the Truck Handbook for the knowledge test. Once I pass that test, I will make an appointment for the road test. The inconvenience is that I should drive the unit to the Centre accompanied by a full fledge class "A" driver.

I may decide to take the unit myself but I have to figure out how to drive the unit away, unnoticed, if I fail.

Bob

 

[Thedonald]

This really raises the issue of traveling from the US into Canada. I live in FL and one of my sons lives in Ottawa. Any information about what I would need to do if crossing into Canada with my 5er at about 12,000lbs? I have asked locally and they don't know.

 

[Bob and Jennifer]

Hi Folks,
I confirm what is posted above for an Ontario A Restricted license required since June of this year for a rig combo over 45' in length, or 10,000 lbs you must:

a) get a medical on the form prescribed by MOT
b) submit medical and write test (the actual book they sell you ($21) is a joke)
c) schedule a road test with your rig

Since this is a relatively new classification, the employees at MOT were not really current on the regulations and rules as to how to get the rig to the testing center (and home if you fail)... or how to get the rig home from the dealer (I imported mine from the USA so technically I was in contravention of the law coming back to Ontario....... I be bad )

Now I've got to get all this done in 3 weeks as we leave for our first extended trip in mid October.

Happy Motoring

 

[Retyred]

A Restricted

I have been going through the same questions after I learned about the Ontario "A" Restricted license. I also went to a testing center with much the same questions, at first they new nothing about it. They finally came up with a sheet and it was the same information I had found on the Ontario web site.
I then contacted the Ontario RV dealers Assocation and they told me the information below. There is also a link to the MTO web page about what you can and cannot tow.
It seems that with a "G" license you can tow 11,000 Kg but your truck must be registered for that weight. That means yearly inspections and a higher cost for yearly tags.
Next I will be going to the license office to find out what the cost will be.

Below is the reply from the ORVDA

A truck towing a trailer and/or a motor vehicle: Class "G" if the truck is registered for and the combination weighs 11,000 kgs (24,250 lbs) or less, Class "D" if the truck is registered for or the combination weighs more than 11,000 kgs, or Class "A" if the weight of the towed vehicle or the combined weight of the towed vehicles exceeds 4,600 kgs (10,141 lbs). I do hope this answers your questions, unfortunately this seems to be a grey area within the Motor Vehicle Licencing and the ORVDA continues to work with the MTO for more clearer licence requirments.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/rv/part2a.shtml


Retyred

 

[rfournelle]

Hi Retyred,

"Below is the reply from the ORVDA

A truck towing a trailer and/or a motor vehicle: Class "G" if the truck is registered for and the combination weighs 11,000 kgs (24,250 lbs) or less, Class "D" if the truck is registered for or the combination weighs more than 11,000 kgs, or Class "A" if the weight of the towed vehicle or the combined weight of the towed vehicles exceeds 4,600 kgs (10,141 lbs). I do hope this answers your questions, unfortunately this seems to be a grey area within the Motor Vehicle Licencing and the ORVDA continues to work with the MTO for more clearer licence requirments."

I read the information above as three different requirements ("A", "B" and "C"), and thought all requirements had to met. In our case, "B" does not apply but wouldn't "C" also apply in addition to "A"? Do you read that differently?

Regards, Bob

 

[wfwilson]

It certainly is grey!Typical of Government regulations. It also leads you to believe in the info that if you are private and for personal use you are OK with G lic. My Dodge Ram SRW is reg for 9900 Lbs under the limit and my combined wgt is under 24000. So is that OK?
Also I purchased my truck used. On the post sticker there is not combined wgt and in the manual it only gives definitions not actual wgt. Were do I find that out?
Thanks
Wayne

 

[nhunter]

This really raises the issue of traveling from the US into Canada. I live in FL and one of my sons lives in Ottawa. Any information about what I would need to do if crossing into Canada with my 5er at about 12,000lbs? I have asked locally and they don't know.

If you have an adequate licence in your home state/province then you are ok.

 

[rfournelle]

FYI, I found the attached guide and a separate document relating to safety inspections on the MOT website.

On page 10 of the guide, one of the notes indicates that the "house trailer is used to determine a truck's RGW". However, on page 3 (top portion) of the separate document under the section headed "Vehicles and Trailers That Do Not Require Annual Inspections" it states in the last paragraph of that section that "When determining RGW, only the tongue weight of a towed device or farm inplement is included in the truck's RGW".

I'm not sure this helps any as the documents seem to contradict each other.

Bob

 

[Retyred]

Registration

Bob:
The way I read it. They are showing what "G", "A", and "D" licence can tow. They all seem to over lap each other but the requirement is that the tow viecle is registered for the weight load.
The way I read it, I can pull my trailer with a truck with a total weight under 11,000kg with a "G" license as long as the truck is registered for that weight.

Martin

 

[Bob and Jennifer]

has anyone written the test yet?
if so do you have to know airbrakes?
It might be wise to open a thread on the actual test itself
regards

Bob

 

[rfournelle]

Air brakes knowledge is not part of the class "A" driver's license. It has a separate knowledge and practical tests. I have attached the MOT web page on it.

I have also attached sample questions from the MOT Truck Handbook for your reference.

I hope to go for my test within the next 2 weeks. I'll post more on it afterwards.

Regards, Bob

 

[Bob and Jennifer]

Thanks for the info on the airbrakes...that was a real concern based upon my research.
Wwhere did you get the sample questions.....the book they sold me "THE OFFICIAL MOT TRUCK HANDBOOK" does not list anything like that.
Thanks

 

[rfournelle]

The MOT official Truck Handbook I bought at the MOT Driver Test Centre about three weeks ago has those sample questions listed on page 111.

Bob

 

[chip]

rfournelle:
I went thru this delema last year. The weight you are quoting is the GVWR (Gross vehicle weight rating) NOT the actual dry weight of your trailer. I looked up in the Heartland manufactures specs and the dry weight of a 3055 is 10735lbs not the 14000lbs you are quoting. To calculate YOUR actual axle weight you take the dry weight and times it by 80% because appproximatley 20 of that weight is transfered to your towing vehicle (pin weight ). Therefore YOUR actual axle weight is approx 8588lbs.
Now the calculation as specified by the Ontario recreational vehicle dealerts association also estimates that you will carry approx 1000lbs of additional weight (food water, clothing etc) therefore you true axle weight for a bighorn 3055 is 9588lbs which puts you below the 4600kgs (10120lbs) rating. I have the documetation from the ORVDA that outlines these calculations. Hope this helps.

 

[rfournelle]

I got my 3055 weighted at a local Cat Scale with the following results:

Truck only TV & 5th wheel

Steer axle 4,380 4,400
Drive axle 3,100 5,780
Front 5er axle - 5,120
Rear 5er axle - 4,900

TOTAL 7,480 20,200

These weights include 2 passengers and 1 dog plus half tank of diesel. The 5er is pretty well dry with only full propane tanks. No water, food or clothing.
Once I fill the 5er with generator, water, etc., I'll be adding another 1,000 to 1,500 lbs. That will clearly put the trailer at more than 10,000 lbs.

Nevertheless, since I am not one to take changes when it comes to rules and regulations, (you never know what complications may arise) I decided to pursue obtaining the class A driver's license. I finally did that yesterday.

I must admit that it's a long process since I started it in mid August. It took MTO six weeks to review and approve the medical report (end of September). The knowledge test is straight forward and can be done in a few days (first week of October). The earliest road test appointment I could have was Oct. 30. That's over 10 weeks in total.

For those of you who are interested, the final test lasted about 1 hour. They get you to complete a pre trip inspection, a back up maneuver, uncouple and then couple the 5er and finally on the road for an actual road test.