Ford 6.7L HPFP failures w/o warranty

[BC1of38]

Since this thread is related to the 2011+ 6.7 this is not a usefull addition to the fuel. May even be of limited or detrimental use on a 09 GMC.

But since you brought it up where are you getting a 780 degree reading towing over a mountain at 70 MPH?

On my 06 DMax I ran 4" turbo back exhaust, EGR delete (real easy on a GM), intake, BD left side exhaust manifold, tuner and other stuff. Had two EGT probes, one in each manifold and the only way it would be possible to get a 780 temp running over a hill at speed would be if I put the EGT probe in the tailpipe.

And mileage was not much better.

should preface a few items.truck is not stock, at all. running a 68mm cheetah turbo, headwork done, efi live for tuning, 5 inch turbo back. egt probe is in manifold. through mountians, handcalculated, 17.2 mpg. trans is also built and I only tow locked in 5th gear max.

2 stroke in fuel would be detrimental if emission items were in place....truck posted 546 rwhp

I also could not believe the ease of towing with the new trailer tires (17.5 inch G114's). Very little rolling resistance.

 

[mmomega]

Since we are off topic for now...my friend I tow with almost every trip has an '07 classic 2500 HD, 4WD CC SRW shortbed with 2 probes like Porthole mentions, EFI Live programmed, 4" turbo back, tranny was built within a few thousand miles of buying the truck, he pulls in 5th at the most, heads ported etc and like I said we tow almost everywhere together. Me with the 5th wheel Landmark and he tows a 30' bumper pull w/ Hensley WD hitch and I get better mileage than he does on my bone stock truck...not much better, maybe .5 - 1 mpg if that but better. Towing 65-70+ mph we are both around 10-12 mpg depending on if we are in hill country or not.
Any time I've been in the truck with him ive yet to see sub 800 deg EGT unless we were coasting. Same with my 6.0L tuned F350. Pulling over hills I could easily hit 1300+ degrees if I weren't paying attention.

I don't think I would ever sell that truck if it gets 15+ mpg around any type of mountains while towing. That's ridiculous, the new GMC's get nothing near that, barely get much better than that empty.

 

[BC1of38]

The Cheetah turbo helps dramatically with the lowered egts, my boost levels on hills are 23-28lbs

And my exhaust is 100 perecent open, no DOC, no DPF, no Muffler.

AND.....self admitted screw up. I work in litres/100km (Canadian), and I did the conversion wrong. MY L/100 were 16, that translates to about 14.5 mpg....still awesome and a MPG I am very happy with.

My colleague has an 08 duramax, bone stock, gets 19.8 L/100 while driving empty......The emissions gear robs so much economy and power

 

[mmomega]

Putting together a little shopping list of fuel related parts quoted from my dealer just FYI knowledge:

6.7L 4V V8 turbo Diesel
Fuel Pump with O-Rings. Part# 9G282. $309.39
Fuel pump mounting gasket Part# 9417. $11.20
Fuel sender. Part# 9A299. $106.72
Fuel injection pump. Part #9A543 $1,098.69
Fuel injection kit. Part # 9H529 $471.83 x 2 sets
Fuel injector line. Part# 9E964. $164.88
Fuel injection supply tube. Part# 9J338. $129.71
Fuel injection supply manifold. Part# 9D280. $333.14
Fuel line(s). Part #s. 9A337A, B, C, D, E. $58.02 + $45.14 + $48.31 + $22.82 + $23.04
Fuel feed tubes, depending on your specific truck Part # 9N103. $from $200 - $400

More to come

 

[porthole]

My list and what I now carry in the truck.
Primary fuel Filter, spare cap complete with drain plug and water in fuel sensor, secondary filter.

The filters I carry in two 3 pound plastic coffee cans. Gives me a place to store the used filters and a place to drain.

1 1/4" socket (already have the wrench for it in the box)
Extra 1/4" drive ratchet, 6" extension and 7 mm universal socket (flex). Price not that bad at sears.

This will give me the quickest and easiest filter change on the road if needed.
Or, should the truck have to be towed, new filters before it goes to the dealer.

Also now travel with the ford branded fuel additives. I get all my filters and additives at DieselFiltersOnline.com, I try and stage my orders to qualify for free shipping. The ford parts (filter cap, drain and sensor) I got at TousleyFord.com. Discount parts online dealer.

 

[Shelby-GT-500]

My list and what I now carry in the truck.
Primary fuel Filter, spare cap complete with drain plug and water in fuel sensor, secondary filter.

The filters I carry in two 3 pound plastic coffee cans. Gives me a place to store the used filters and a place to drain.

1 1/4" socket (already have the wrench for it in the box)
Extra 1/4" drive ratchet, 6" extension and 7 mm universal socket (flex). Price not that bad at sears.

This will give me the quickest and easiest filter change on the road if needed.
Or, should the truck have to be towed, new filters before it goes to the dealer.

Also now travel with the ford branded fuel additives. I get all my filters and additives at DieselFiltersOnline.com, I try and stage my orders to qualify for free shipping. The ford parts (filter cap, drain and sensor) I got at TousleyFord.com. Discount parts online dealer.

I thought when you bought the factory fuel filter it all came as one unit. I just bought one from DieselfiltersOnline and just took a quick look at it and then had the dealer install it so there would be a record. Is there additional parts I should order to have on hand?

Thanks

 

[mmomega]

The fuel filter kit is 2 fuel filters. 1 for under the hood on the drivers side and 1 under the truck frame mounted drivers side in front of the the fuel tank. I do my own maintenance and keep record of it on the flmowner.com website.

 

[Shelby-GT-500]

Porthole said he keeps a spare cap w/drain and sensore. Not sure why you would need that if you had a Kit with you. The trick will also now remember if you have a water in fuel light. So ford will know this. I guess you will at least have clean filters?

 

[porthole]

The extra cap is to simplify filter changes on the road.
The complete cap also acts as a spare for road debris damaging the frame mounted filter.

 

[Shelby-GT-500]

The extra cap is to simplify filter changes on the road.
The complete cap also acts as a spare for road debris damaging the frame mounted filter.

Thanks for the info.

 

[porthole]

BTW, what Ford calls a "cap" is the spin on "can" that holds the filter.

 

[mmomega]

Changed my filters and oil last week during the tornados, drained the diesel from the water separator and it had quite a bit of metal flakes in it. I'll toss a pic up soon, never had a water in fuel light. Only filled from Kroger, Loves and other high volume stations. 17,450 miles. Let's see how long this thing lasts. Going to tear apart the underhood filter when I get a chance to see if anything made it that far.

 

[Shelby-GT-500]

Changed my filters and oil last week during the tornados, drained the diesel from the water separator and it had quite a bit of metal flakes in it. I'll toss a pic up soon, never had a water in fuel light. Only filled from Kroger, Loves and other high volume stations. 17,450 miles. Let's see how long this thing lasts. Going to tear apart the underhood filter when I get a chance to see if anything made it that far.

A Word of advise my friend. I learned a lot from my 6.0 days. Ford puts a lot of effort into denying claims. As I said ford actually boosted the stock HP and torque by programing the 6.0. This caused a lot of the problems like blown head gaskets. Then you had owners doing additional programing. Ford found out a lot, like what the top of the piston looks like with stock programing and what it looks like with an aftermarket programer. The burn pattern was a lot larger with a programer. So no warranty for them! Ford was correct in denying these claims. The other thing I found out was their internet team built a data base using public info from these forums. Ya thats right. Guy's are alway bragging about the mods they have done and Ford is well aware. Guy's also give a lot of detail about their location and mods in their sig. Not only do they read these forums but they take notes and use that to deny warranty as well. Talking about metal flakes in your filter will not help you with an HPFP failure claim. Just sayin!

I hope your truck does not give out on you. If it does and ford throws your claim out, we will see if you truly will come back to Ford. You have been making a concerted effort to buy the best fuel you can. I do not believe it would be fair or honest for them to deny you the warranty!

Good luck!

 

[porthole]

I don't think posting that you found something in your non modified truck is an issue. Now he has something to keep an eye on though.

I have been checking my filters too (twice now) but not to the extent some are, cutting them open.

 

[mmomega]

Not sure why talking about it would hurt any claim. I'm not saying I poured in a can of aluminum to see if the filter would catch it. I changed a filter and there were bits of metal in the pan I caught the fuel in, for all I know those metal flakes could have already been in the pan.
Truck is still running like a champ, never any shift flares or any of the other mentioned problems on other forums. It has done everything I've asked of it.

The only modifications on my truck is a tailgate shock and a windshield tint brow and shocks.
Oh I'll keep the truck and keep driving. My insurance will cover it if Ford doesn't. I'd be out more money by buying a new truck than even if I had to fix this one out of my pocket.

I won't get a Dodge and GM won't come off their sticker prices at all unless they have factory rebates. Just to amuse my friend I called and went to just 5 of our local GMC dealers. Most of the trucks were priced a lot higher than mine and did not come with the same amount of equipment. Ex: most didn't come with running boards, most had no Nav, no preinstalled fifth wheel hitch, bed wasn't spray lined. Mine came with all of these things at the dealership and buying them after the fact would add even more cost.
Throwing out rough numbers, I got offered basically 44,000 as a trade in. The new GMC equally equipped after rebates was $54,000 and some change(I paid less than this for my truck out the door).
So now I'm out of pocket $10,000.Then TT&L and other costs they try to hide and the general BS of buying a new vehicle.
Now I have to either buy the Reese under bed hitch rails or try and sell my Elite hitch and find a whole new system. Now having the bed sprayed. Now waiting another 2 months to switch out my R4 Tech to a GMC truck. So even if I were to be out of pocket for the pump change it would be less than buying something new again.

Also, my 2007 6.0 had a Banks system on it from 2 weeks after new, about 2 years ago I put in an Edge EVO CTS and the truck was still covered by warranty and still has warranty left for another 30k, I still have it. Ford switched the transmission and changed the head gaskets in June of 2011. I didn't lie to them at all, I said the truck is overheating and puking antifreeze, I'm going through a couple gallons a month and the transmission has been slipping a lot when unloaded. It pulls like a champ with my trailer hooked up. Something isn't right. 2 weeks later I had it back with 2 new Interstate batteries to boot.
The programmer was still in the truck, just programmed back to stock settings which is what you are supposed to do when it goes in for service.

 

[Shelby-GT-500]

mmomega,
I have to chuckle just a little. You have made my point for me. You have done everything your supposed to right. But you ended up with aluminum in you fuel “maybe”. This is exactly what I have been saying. How is it your fault if you get aluminum or water in the fuel? You go to the station and that’s what is pumped into your truck. You have absolutely no control over that other than the station you pick. And even with your high volume station you may have had bad fuel put into your truck, again not your fault. There is water in diesel. This is a fact. Hence water separators in every single diesel truck produced. So if the Ford filter system is not protecting the HPFP how is that a bad fuel issue?

If you want to be a cheerleader for Ford that’s fine. I choose to lead a more informed life and not blindly follow anything or anyone! I expect quality and honest interaction when I do business. Having a problem with and HPFP is no big deal if it is covered under warranty. But to deny all HPFP failures is simply dishonest! I would have a problem dealing with a dishonest company and you don’t. That is the big difference in our viewpoints. I expect honesty from the people and companies I do business with. Maybe some claims are being paid but I have not seen any evidence of that on any forums. If Ford wants to correct my opinion here they can simply chime in on the conversation, as we know they are reading all of this.

I do love my truck; it looks great it has lots of power and great fuel mileage. I’m just scared of one of these failures at this point. So I drive it as little as possible until more light is shed on Ford and their position on warranty claims.

Just to amuse your friend you went to 5 GMC dealers, WOW! That is a lot of time and expense to satisfy a friend! If you come to phoenix I can get you at a minimum invoice less rebates on a GMC. I would guess that is 3-5 thousand less than you have been quoted. I have never seen a dealer that only sells at widow sticker unless it was such a hot vehicle they had no stock and as soon as it hit the floor it was sold. Also never heard of a dealer that would not compete with the guy down the street. Especially if they guy down the street is trying to get full sticker!

Not sure about your claims on the 6.0. You show up at a dealer with a blown head gasket and a programmer in the truck and they warranted it. Then just to make sure you were happy they gave you two new batteries REALLY! WOW when I had my 6.0 if you had an aftermarket exhaust and a programmer they would void warranty. Do you have a personal friend at the dealership?

Your 6.0 was a good looking truck! Some friendly advice and I will leave it at that. Do not post any more photos of aluminum in your fuel!

 

[Shelby-GT-500]

To elaborate a little more on the forums and manufactures. I have some friends that run websites for various brands. Representatives from the different manufacturers have contacted them in some cases.

These companies use the sites to get info on their products. We are basically test dummies for them. When a new product comes out they monitor these sites daily. You can’t blame them. It’s a great way to see what failures are happening. Guy’s will put detailed instructions and photos of the defective parts.
So when you post about mods and other things it can be recorded. I had a friend have a warranty repair denied because of what he had posted. I will not tell you what brand did this though.

The worst part is knowing Ford is reading all these posts with disappointed customers and potential customers that have bought a different brand because of all these posts. Just Google Ford HPFP Failure and see how many pages come up! Ford does have Google! And yet the same policy is in place on the HPFP. A lot of you guys give your undying loyalty to Ford. What type of loyalty do you expect in return?

 

[lwmcguir]

We should really stick to facts or this will be totaly useless.

 

[ricatic]

Not sure why talking about it would hurt any claim. I'm not saying I poured in a can of aluminum to see if the filter would catch it. I changed a filter and there were bits of metal in the pan I caught the fuel in, for all I know those metal flakes could have already been in the pan.
Truck is still running like a champ, never any shift flares or any of the other mentioned problems on other forums. It has done everything I've asked of it.

The only modifications on my truck is a tailgate shock and a windshield tint brow and shocks.
Oh I'll keep the truck and keep driving. My insurance will cover it if Ford doesn't. I'd be out more money by buying a new truck than even if I had to fix this one out of my pocket.

I won't get a Dodge and GM won't come off their sticker prices at all unless they have factory rebates. Just to amuse my friend I called and went to just 5 of our local GMC dealers. Most of the trucks were priced a lot higher than mine and did not come with the same amount of equipment. Ex: most didn't come with running boards, most had no Nav, no preinstalled fifth wheel hitch, bed wasn't spray lined. Mine came with all of these things at the dealership and buying them after the fact would add even more cost.
Throwing out rough numbers, I got offered basically 44,000 as a trade in. The new GMC equally equipped after rebates was $54,000 and some change(I paid less than this for my truck out the door).
So now I'm out of pocket $10,000.Then TT&L and other costs they try to hide and the general BS of buying a new vehicle.
Now I have to either buy the Reese under bed hitch rails or try and sell my Elite hitch and find a whole new system. Now having the bed sprayed. Now waiting another 2 months to switch out my R4 Tech to a GMC truck. So even if I were to be out of pocket for the pump change it would be less than buying something new again.

Also, my 2007 6.0 had a Banks system on it from 2 weeks after new, about 2 years ago I put in an Edge EVO CTS and the truck was still covered by warranty and still has warranty left for another 30k, I still have it. Ford switched the transmission and changed the head gaskets in June of 2011. I didn't lie to them at all, I said the truck is overheating and puking antifreeze, I'm going through a couple gallons a month and the transmission has been slipping a lot when unloaded. It pulls like a champ with my trailer hooked up. Something isn't right. 2 weeks later I had it back with 2 new Interstate batteries to boot.
The programmer was still in the truck, just programmed back to stock settings which is what you are supposed to do when it goes in for service.

I hate to be the bearer of worry some news but those aluminum flakes you see in your drain pan look like the metal I found in my fuel filter and fuel tank after the HPFP failed. Because I was able to maintain ownership of my failed pump, I can see how the pump fails...as have 3 diesel engineers who have examined my pump. It is easy to see why it throws a bunch of debris throughout the fuel system. These pumps do not fail instantly. They grind away at themselves for many miles before they just up and quit. That big two lobe cam that drives the pistons just chews away at the aluminum case. The pistons look like old two cycle engine pistons that were run on straight gas...which is exactly what is happening when the poor diesel fuel in the US is pumped through a HPFP that is operating in an environment that is out of the manufacturer's specification .

As to warranty expectations driven by brand or dealership loyalty, that is a figment of imagination. I have traveled the very loyal and highly supportive Ford customer road. Deb has never owned anything but a Ford product in the 40 plus years she has been driving. If you count her early years, she has never had anything sit in her driveway that was not a Ford. This point was made in a discussion with a Ford Dearborn Executive during a warranty coverage discussion about our HPFP failure...her answer...too bad...no warranty. Politics played a big part in this debacle...but that is irrelevant. Ford still shafted a loyal customer on a repair that is unquestionably a warranty repair.

As to Deb and a new truck...way to go Ford...the next truck will not be a Ford.

Enough facts????

Regards

 

[porthole]

I do love my truck; it looks great it has lots of power and great fuel mileage. I’m just scared of one of these failures at this point. So I drive it as little as possible until more light is shed on Ford and their position on warranty claims.

What kind of truck, Ford 6.7?

I have no brand loyalty and my 6.7 is my first FoMoCo product, excluding my wife's MKX.

I think many of us who have the 6.7 and now may have a bit of concern over the HPFP debacle, bought our trucks before the HPFP failures came to light.
I followed the Scorpion design from the day I first read about it and felt with all the previous Ford diesel history that they got it right this time (I am am auto-diesel tech by trade, former career though).

The big difference with all of this is that GM seems to be repairing the trucks under warranty, don't know about VW where it first surfaced.

There is going to be a lot of spilled ink over this and it may very well hurt Ford in the future, from the loss of blue oval loyalist to the first timers who just shop around for a new truck, regardless of brand.

New truck buyer walks into ford dealer:
Yep, here ya go, this baby has more torque and horsepower then the GM or Dodge down the street. Just look at it - it is a super duty after all, what else can be said?

Stops by the GM store
Yep, look at this truck and you compare, but be aware, that Ford you looked at are blowing up engines and they are not covered under warranty. Just Google it and you will see all the failures and non coverage.
Yeah - but doesn't GM use the same pump? Sure do, but GM is repairing the very few failures that have popped up. Just Google, you will not find complaints like the negative Ford for the GM.

Now the new truck buyer is unsure, Ford dealer says greatest since sliced bread, GM says Ford's are blowing up, who to believe?
Stops by the Dodge dealer:
Yep, take a look at this baby, doesn't have quite as much HP and torque as the other too, but it is not a Mexican or Japanese engine. We got the Cummins here, you may have heard Cummins before, they are in everything from tractors to trucks, buses luxury yachts and so on.
What the GM dealer told you about the Ford is correct, just Google it, but the GM has pumps that are failing too. I don't think they are covered though (remember this is the sales person).
Now this here Cummins, we don't use the Bosch pump prone to failure, just Google it.

End of the day, the new truck buyer has now heard from two different manufacturers that eh Ford is junk and he is at home Googleing it and decides Ford is not for him.
And he tells all his friends, joins the new Dodge forum and relates his story there.
And the next new truck buyer joins the big 3 truck forums and continues to read about the failures and does not buy the Super Duty.

I still really like my truck and it is the best pickup I have owned since buying my first new vehicle, 1978 Dodge Power Wagon.
I am hoping I skate under the HPFP failure. I will continue to change my oil before the recommended interval and will change my fuel filters twice a year like I have always done.

New to me though is that I am using the Motorcraft fuel additives with every tank. Not happy about being forced by fear to do that, but I do not want to end up where Ric did.

In the end, NHTSA is looking into it and all the consumer can hope for is a ruling by the feds.

What I don't get is, the pump failure is a Bosch item. Warranted repairs completed by Ford are just in turn billed to the part supplier.

I still like my truck and am keeping my fingers crossed