Lippert Warranty Doesn't Care about safety!

[Larryheadhunter]

Thanks Jim, I totally agree with you on this subject that many of us have been so passionate about. Let's wrap this thread up on January 10th and close it. All HL owners that want to add posts about their spring and frame issues should post their problems by close of day. Jim has been so kind to provide a someone at Liippert for me to contact to discuss all our suspension problems and how they plan to deal with them. Thanks again to Jim for being so helpful and considerate to allow our honest but respectful comments to be aired on this HL forum. Once I speak with Lippert, Jim, is there any way I can send the appropriate posts to someone in senior management at Heartland and possibly speak with them as well? Truthfully, I am not sure who is ultimately responsible after reading some of these posts, Lippert or Heartland. Thanks again.

 

[Hunter11]

This retro-fit can be done during the building of these frames, its nothing more than a boxed frame. I'm sure you will see this upgrade in the future and the cost will be very little comparied to the cost of repair. Mor/Ryde has the bolt on X-Factor which is very similar to what Lippert has. I recomend everyone take a close look at their frames and consider the retro-fit and or the Mor/Ryde X-Factor which can save a lot of grief and or lots of Money.

I would like to find out a little more information about this retro-fit offered by Lippert. We are in the process of looking at new 5th wheels and we are going to look at a Big Country 3450TS this weekend to get a feel for the layout as it is one at the top of our list. We currently own a mid level 5th wheel of another brand who has also had a few frame issues with some of their models (who hasn't that uses Lippert frames and components) and as others here have stated it seems to be hit or miss on Lippert correcting their problems even under the warranty period. Does anyone know what the cost of this retro-fit is and what is involved to install it? Is this something Heartland now installs on it's 2010-2011 models that will eliminate the issue? Just trying to get as much information as I can before we decide to sell our unit and order a new one. Thanks for any help.

 

[jbeletti]

Hunter11,

I don't have any information about the retrofit discussed by others but I have the Customer Service number to Lippert. Consider giving them a call directly. Their number is 866-524-7821.

Jim

 

[beasleyrl]

Larry - I just had all 6 springs replaced by Lippert on my 09 Cyclone the week of Christmas (09). I have broken 2 leaf springs since May on 2 different trips. After reading some of the posts here, I do consider myself fortunate. My rig was purchased in February 08. I'm not sure what the actual warranty is (1 or 2 years -- I've heard both) on the frame.

When the first spring broke, in May, I figured it was just a maintenance item and had it fixed (Memorial Day weekend - $600). When the second broke (on the way to the VA Heartland Rally in September - $400), I began to wonder if something was up. The Heartland Rep and the dealer at the rally told me to have my dealer contact Lippert. So, I took the rig to the dealer in November when it was ready for storage and they began the process. Initially, Lippert indicated the rig had to be over weight. However, I had it weighed on the way back from that trip and it was well under the rated weight. The dealer then had it weighed it for themselves and confirmed my weights. Lippert then asked the dealer to ship them a broken spring. Fortunately, I still had the one that had broken in September. They told the dealer that if they determined it to be a manufacturing issue, they would replace the remaining springs at their expense.

I should also note that after the dealer saw my rig, they said they did not recommend moving the unit until something was done because the other springs were sagging and could have broken at any time. Great to hear that after traveling nearly 3000 miles round trip to Maine in August/September through some pretty curvy mountain roads!

After the analysis, Lippert agreed to ship the dealer 4 new springs (to replace the remaining original springs since I had already replaced 2) and pay for that install. Working through the dealer, I told him that if they had determined it to be a problem, they either needed to replace the other 2 or reimburse me for the 2 I had repaired. If they had reimbursed me, my plan was to have my dealer replace the other 2. My big concern was that since these 2 had basically been replaced along side the road, I might have the same issue again because who knows where these parts came from?

Bottom line - they (Lippert) replaced all 6 springs at their expense. While I would like to have had the $1,000 for the repairs I had made too, I was happy to get what I got after reading some of the other posts about Lippert.

 

[Patrick_and_Barb]

Hey gang,

I plan to wrap this thread up on the 10th of this month. I have asked Larry to take the initiative to print off relevant commentary and communicate it to Lippert, based on his original intent.

Jim

Jim,
I don't understand the need to wrap up this thread, nor, have I ever seen a forum remove an active thread for any other reason than profanity or prejudice. This is important information that all current owners as well as prospective owners should have a right to see. I am assuming your definition of wrapping up, means the removal of this thread, thus protecting the interests of Heartland from possible lawsuits do to possible injury or death caused by these alleged inadequacies in the design of our frames & suspensions. I don't believe this type of censorship is what Heartland had originally envisioned for this forum.
My honest opinion.
I hope this will not be censored.

Patrick

 

[leftyf]

Jim,
I don't understand the need to wrap up this thread, nor, have I ever seen a forum remove an active thread for any other reason than profanity or prejudice. This is important information that all current owners as well as prospective owners should have a right to see. I am assuming your definition of wrapping up, means the removal of this thread, thus protecting the interests of Heartland from possible lawsuits do to possible injury or death caused by these alleged inadequacies in the design of our frames & suspensions. I don't believe this type of censorship is what Heartland had originally envisioned for this forum.
My honest opinion.
I hope this will not be censored.

Patrick

You don't know Beletti very well, do ya? Kinda strong words for a first post.

And, I thought I was the only one that failed "works well and plays with others" in Kindergarten.

Beletti OWNS this thing...Beletti giveth...Beletti taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Owner.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Patrick, my reading of it was that JB was only going to close the thread not delete it. There must be 20 threads on here about suspension issues and they are all here to read. Do some homework in the search box before you assume anything. BTW, there is some behind the curtain work going on here. So stay tuned and dont prejudge anyone. Bob

 

[Bob&Patty]

Lefty, as usual your "words of wisdom" never cease to amaze me. ROTFLOL. Bob

 

[JohnDar]

You don't know Beletti very well, do ya? Kinda strong words for a first post.

And, I thought I was the only one that failed "works well and plays with others" in Kindergarten.

Beletti OWNS this thing...Beletti giveth...Beletti taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Owner.

And when he can, he kicks a problem "upstairs" and things happen. Having been the fortunate recipient of Jim's getting involved when all I could do was fume, Mr. Patrick needs to cool his jets. Perhaps when Larry gets some answer or resolution to his problem, we'll know more.

I didn't do too well in that class either, Lefty.

 

[leftyf]

Lefty, as usual your "words of wisdom" never cease to amaze me. ROTFLOL. Bob

I been resting up. This board is one of the things that keep me sane...if you get my drift.

 

[leftyf]

I didn't do too well in that class either, Lefty.

I got an "N" in that class. You know...E=Excellent, G=Good. P=Pass, U=Unsat, and N=NFW.

 

[Bob&Patty]

This is my story and i'm sticking to it

This is my story with Lippert's suspension. Last year in July while coming home from Morro Bay, the left front (ODS) "U" bolt nuts came loose and the axle moved back. This happened coming down the 5 mile grade on I-5 north of L.A. I think it is about a 5% grade. My first clue was that I could not see the BH in my left mirror anymore. I could see alot of it in the right mirror. I thought that was a little odd. When I had a chance to pull over, I did a walk around. The ODS tires were almost rubbing together. We still had a 100 miles the go to get home. So we pressed on at a slow speed. There was not any smoke coming from the tires the rest of the way. After we were home I crawled under to inspect everything. I found that all 4 springs were "splayed" and there was a 2 1/2" difference from side to side. I called Lippert about this and was told that my BH frame warrenty was over. Well as I found out a 07 BH has a 2 year warrenty on the frame. The warrenty was not over until 9-28-09. I will not name names but I was told that it was my fault because the BH was overloaded. Seems to me that that is their normal response to anything that goes wrong. Well it just so happens that I had weighed all the axles before we left for the trip. The loaded weight was 10400#'s on the trailer axles. So to me that was the wrong answer. After a few days of arguing back and forth, I jacked up the left side and proceded to inspect and repair the problem. I loosened the "U" bolts and put the axle back in place. I also checked all the other "U" bolt nuts and they were all loose. I have owned alot of vehicles in the last 50 years that have had leaf springs and have never had to go around and make sure that the nuts are tight. Now back to what else I found had happened. I had 2 tires that were damaged by the axle movement. 1 had big chunks missing and 1 had a deep groove cut into the tread. Some of the damage was caused by the outriggers that support the ODS side slide being misplaced on the frame in assembly at Lipperts factory. Both were bent forward and up by the up and down movement of the front axle. This was on both sides of the coach. The tire with the deep groove was caused by the tire rubbing on the slide ram "L" bracket welded to the square gear tube. Swell, so if I put Goodyears on the coach it will ruin new tires since they are a taller tire. To shorten this up a bit. After some wrangling with Lippert and after Jim Beletti and Jim Fenner got involved, Lippert sent a repair guy to my home and relaced all the springs with 5 leaf springs and wet bolts. I believe that they are 7K springs. Now the BH sits higher and the rubbing problem is better....more clearance. The ride is still the same. My only issue with Lippert now is the same as Larry's. They told me that they would send me a check for the 2 tires which has not happened yet. It has been 6 months and no check. I have sent 2 emails with no reponse. But, I feel that $75.00 per tire is not right for a tires that had 9/32 worth of tread depth still on them. As some others have stated Lippert has a problem with either bad material or workmanship. This problem is not just with Heartland but is with all the coach builders that use Lippert componets. I also think that I have a weld or frame problem. I have alot of excessive movement on the right front under the BR and the side wall a the bottom. The "L" shaped molding that runs from the front cap around the side and down to the front storage door wall is pulling loose all the time. I guess only time will tell. BTW, I have all the emails and pix I took of the damage and sent to Lippert saved. All in all, if the axle had moved any father back, and if the 2 tires had started rubbing together in opposite directions, as they would, IT COULD HAVE BEEN REALLY UGLY. 5% grade, down hill at 50MPH. There you are Larry, so go to it. Bob

 

[porthole]

For those who are not aware, my position with Heartland is to administrate this forum and run the owners club. I do this from my home office in Chicago or wherever my travels take me. I do not have an office at a plant or the corporate office. I do not sit in on engineering or productions meetings. I have more information about Heartland process than you may, but I am not a subject matter expert on any department other than my own

So you are not an all seeing sooth sayer

 

[Bob&Patty]

I think JB has a "crystal ball" somewhere though. He knows what I might post on the forum and tells me not to before I do it.. HUH???

 

[SouthernNights]

I think JB has a "crystal ball" somewhere though. He knows what I might post on the forum and tells me not to before I do it.. HUH???

No crystal ball....he just knows you

 

[Larryheadhunter]

Hi everyone,
Just an update. Anyone who wishes to post about Lippert suspensions should do so now if they wish to be seen by Lippert and hopefully HL senior management. Jim B is closing the thread at end of day June 10th, so I can take all the info supplied to them for explanation and hopefully, satisfactory results. It gives me no pleasure to be the one to go both to try to get some changes done, but someone had to do it, and usually if you are the one that has an incident, you have a vested interest in resolving the problem.
So far out of 75 posts, most of them have been supportive of me intervening with Lippert and HL. Only 2 were negative, mostly saying you should expect to upgrade if you want safe and comfortable rides. I have also gotten a few very supportive PM's with their story, but needlessly nervous about HL or Jim B retribution against them. I can assure everyone Jim B. is a straight shooter and how can Lippert ave their reputation and make positive changes if no one complains about dangerous or shoddy workmanship or actual parts, directly to them.

By end of next week, my goal is to provide both Lippert and HL all the posts on this thread that pertain to problems and solutions to the issue of suspension systems.
I also plan on speaking directly to Andrew VanSchoick Director of Warranty @ Lippert if he is available. Once I understand his position, I will report back to this thread with his explanation. If I am not satisfied, or feel the need, I will try to contact someone in Heartland Senior management to hopefully discuss this suspension problem issues. I know that in my adult life, anytime I have contacted senior management (hopefully the President or CEO) of a company, I usually get straight answers. Let's all hope that occurs for all us.

I probably should follow my mentor Bob's suggestion and read some of the 20 odd old threads involving suspension issues as well, but I can't promise, only try. I am only one person.

Anyway, these posts are probably only a microcosm of complaints about Lippert Suspension problems, so hopefully the folks at Lippert are open and willing to deal with, at the least, people who are owners of Heartland 5th wheels.

I thank each and every one of you who have contributed their thoughts on this thread. Keep them coming through January 10th so I can utilize all comments when trying to get answers. Peace, out of here.

 

[Riverman]

I believe you mean January rather than June?

 

[Larryheadhunter]

Yes thanks riverman, done! Only off by 6 months LOL

 

[Riverman]

... by June, I may have suspension problems of my own. We pick our Cyclone up next week.

 

[beardedone]

I don't know if you reviewed my earlier thread on my 09 Landmark. The suspension on the driver's side is shot. The hanger bent over and now the tires are rubbing. This is what I was told the upgrade kit was for, which I would have to buy. This was only noticed 2 months after my 1 year warranty expired and did not happen overnight. I was told that I had hit a pothole, NOT. All I have gotten is the kiss-off. They don't care. Why do you think the warranty was reduced to one year from two. I am mad. I will have to repair this on my own with SOB parts. Lippert doesn't care and they made it obvious to me. As I have said this is a serious safety issue and maybe should be reported to government safety officials for their information or action. In my opinion there was no sincerity evident from Lippert.