Lippert Warranty Doesn't Care about safety!
- Thread starter Larryheadhunter
- Start date
-
- Tags
- damage lippert suspension
rick_debbie_gallant
Well-known member
Okay, not to be a worry wart but: I am a just a little, (okay a lot) concerned about what I am reading here in this thread about the leaf spring problems others are having with their rigs as well as the axles.
I would hope that either Heartland or Lippert would become proactive and take a serious look at the spring issue that people are having with their rigs. If there is a problem with either the design (ratings) of the springs, or inferior materials being used in the springs, then perhaps something should be done before there is a serious accident.
I would be interested to know if there is a safety factor in the rating of the springs. In other words, while driving down the road I am sure that the front and rear springs will, at times have double the load placed on them and perhaps even higher. Some example would be uneven roads, hard bumps, hard bounces, etc where the loads would exceed normal driving conditions.
I hate to bring up Toyota and the problems they are currently having with their products (millions of them), but they thought they had things taken care of.
What do you think Jim B.?
I would hope that either Heartland or Lippert would become proactive and take a serious look at the spring issue that people are having with their rigs. If there is a problem with either the design (ratings) of the springs, or inferior materials being used in the springs, then perhaps something should be done before there is a serious accident.
I would be interested to know if there is a safety factor in the rating of the springs. In other words, while driving down the road I am sure that the front and rear springs will, at times have double the load placed on them and perhaps even higher. Some example would be uneven roads, hard bumps, hard bounces, etc where the loads would exceed normal driving conditions.
I hate to bring up Toyota and the problems they are currently having with their products (millions of them), but they thought they had things taken care of.
What do you think Jim B.?
Lisa013143
Member
I am both confused and concerned with what I am reading about the frame. A week ago I purchased a 39 ft. 5th wheel (Elk Ridge) with 2 bedrooms and 1-1/2 baths. Are you folks telling be the camper frame is unstable? I am planning to drive from Florida to Alaska next summer. Is there something I need to do to prevent frame failure?
rick_debbie_gallant
Well-known member
Lisa013143: I am sure someone will weigh in here. Jim B. is a pretty straight shooter and is truly there for us. After all he owns one also.
Hi Lisa,
Our frames are not designed and built to fail. If you load your trailer no more than it is rated for, drive reasonable speeds while trailering (<65 MPH) and don't go off-roading with it - you should be fine.
When in Alaska, be very cautious with your speed on certain highways at certain times of the year. I have heard some stories of people driving much too fast for safety on roads with frost heaves etc. that have done a number on suspension systems. Don't mean to scare you off from Alaska either. Do your research - live smart and have fun!
Jim
Rick,
I think that I run the forum and the club and I don't have answers you seek. Sorry.
I can say this, Heartland is very concerned about the safety of every customer using our product and in the area of frame/suspension, we constantly work with our suppliers to ensure their are on top of their game in terms of material and build quality. I think if you look at the distribution by model year of those who have had spring or axle issues, you'd find the "vast majority" of issues seen on this forum were not from our 2009 and 2010 model year products. This tells me something. That improvements are being made.
Jim
rick_debbie_gallant
Well-known member
thanks Jim. I will be able to sleep tonight. I kind of figured that was the case regarding the frame, axle and springs. you are right there have not been that many issues with the newer models.
Sure do hope it gets warmer and dryer before the big get together in Donna in a couple of weeks. Looking forward to seeing that new rig.
You going through the north part of Texas on your way to Donna or are you taking the warmer, more southern route through Houston, Rockport and Corpus Christi?
later
Sure do hope it gets warmer and dryer before the big get together in Donna in a couple of weeks. Looking forward to seeing that new rig.
You going through the north part of Texas on your way to Donna or are you taking the warmer, more southern route through Houston, Rockport and Corpus Christi?
later
Just now looking at routing. Will be in Kerrville prior to the RGV. I arrive in Kerrville for the RV.net Sweetheart Rally on the 9th and leave on the 15th for Mission. Wooho - Texas here I come!
Jim
Larryheadhunter
X-Rookies Still Luving it
Lisa,
I would only be concerned about 6000 lb axles with 3 spring leafs in your Elk Ridge. If so call Lippert Warranty and have them do the math in regards to if your setup is strong enough to support your weight. I am only concerned about the suspension, ie; axles, and spring leafs, not frame.
I would only be concerned about 6000 lb axles with 3 spring leafs in your Elk Ridge. If so call Lippert Warranty and have them do the math in regards to if your setup is strong enough to support your weight. I am only concerned about the suspension, ie; axles, and spring leafs, not frame.
mrcomer
Past Ohio Chapter Leaders (Founding)
Larry,
I don't think the quantity of leaf springs is the issue rather the quality of the material that makes the leaf spring.
Larryheadhunter
X-Rookies Still Luving it
Ok Mark, now the big question is how do you find out what the quality of the leaf spring is? It's just a good idea not to ride around with 3 leaf springs. I oughta know as that's why I started this thread my friend.
mrcomer
Past Ohio Chapter Leaders (Founding)
Larry,
I am not wanting to start a banter with you on this and I am not trying to take away from your particular issue. My point is that I would prefer 3 good/high quality leaf springs over 4 poor quality leaf springs provided that the engineering stipulates that the 3 leaf springs are sufficient for the load calculated. I do not think that there is necessarily safety in numbers where this is concerned. Don't get me wrong, I like over-engineered versus under-engineered any day of the week but well-engineered is this most ideal. And even if it is well-engineered there is still the possibility of poor quality materials which in some cases is out of the engineers control.
Your are correct, how do you know what the quality is? Well I don't have a good answer for this but I do agree with you. Just like how do you know the quality of 4 leaf springs versus 3 leaf springs?
Another topic we could go back and forth about also would be why not put three axles under these longer, heavier rigs instead of just 2? More tires, springs and axles to spread the load over. (Maybe a topic for another thread)
Just my personal opinion and 2-cents,
Mark
JohnDar
Prolifically Gabby Member
STEEL USED TO
MANUFACTURE SPRINGS
MANUFACTURE SPRINGS
Quality versions of springs are made from High Alloy Spring Steel known
as SAE5160. While springs can be made from cheaper low carbon steels
they will lack the durability of springs made from SAE5160.
Springs have a memory that allows them to return to the original position
time after time.While it is true that over time springs will settle and
lose their ability to support weight, springs made from SAE5160 will outlast
the others many, many times over offsetting any cost savings.as SAE5160. While springs can be made from cheaper low carbon steels
they will lack the durability of springs made from SAE5160.
Springs have a memory that allows them to return to the original position
time after time.While it is true that over time springs will settle and
lose their ability to support weight, springs made from SAE5160 will outlast
http://www.eatonsprings.com/SpringTech101.pdf
Larryheadhunter
X-Rookies Still Luving it
Hi Mark,
I agree with you about not bantering, period, and quality is obviously more important than quantity, especially regarding safety issues, and leaf springs and suspensions fit into that category. If the 3 spring leafs were of optimum quality, I would be fine, but you and I both know they are not!
Also has John Dar has made clear in the following post, the steel used to manufacture springs should be of a required quality, but the QC ain't so hot if they are made in China, which I believe is where Lippert has their manufactured their axles I also asked Lippert whether they make their products per a certain safety standard that could be checked out, and I haven gotten a clear answer. They feel they are making their products up to safety standards.
My point with you, Mark, was 3 leaf springs, especially since they are mass produced with equal thickness, and quality, just aren't strong enough, per all the breakdowns we have read and heard about. At least with 4 or 5 leaf springs set at 7,000 lbs. strength, you should feel a bit safer, at least I do! If the 3 leaf springs were of proper thickness and manufactured properly, I do agree with your assessment. Let me know when that occurs. LOL Your point of 3 axles is great, but not realistic, as only the toy haulers and heavier models get that extra axle. I don't think Landmark's are more than 2 axles either. I hope that clarifies my point of view, so we can drop that discussion.
This brings up another question that is open to all. Are all the leaf springs supplied by Lippert, exactly the same strength and quality, that are made for each model? Are the toy hauler springs made thicker and stronger? I have no clue, but if someone can enlighten me I would appreciate it. This would also give the answers to Mark's original point he was trying to make.
Per my own situation, today Lippert delivered 2 7,000lb axles with the 5 leaf springs attached, to my home, where they sit in the garage. Should they also replace the shocks with that, or does anyone think that the ones they put on in Oregon, will do the job? Are shock absorbers different strength per the weight of the axle or the same, meaning one size fits all? In short order, Lippert is sending out their own technicians to replace my 6,000 lb axles with 3 leaf springs with the new ones just delivered today.
Larryheadhunter
X-Rookies Still Luving it
Thanks Bob, what shocks do Lippert use? Are they different for each model? The reason I brought it up, was mine may be replaced when they put in my new axles and springs, and I was curious which ones they will install. Thus, my earlier question. Does Lippert use the gas filled, fluid filled, dual action or single action, and do they install the exact same one on every model? That way I can be certain the right shocks are used.
Hey larry i have been into suspention for a long time now it doesnt make a difference on the trailers because lippert has the shocks laying down way to far to really do any good. A shock has to travel a certain distance before it really starts to work and the angle they are on they really dones,t work to much there mostly there for a selling pointe.
Larryheadhunter
X-Rookies Still Luving it
Thanks sandman, I have heard before that the shocks they use from Lippert are laying down to far. Is HL or Lippert addressing this problem, I wonder out loud? Regardless, if my rig needs it, I want the proper one installed.
Bob&Patty
Founders of SoCal Chapter
Lar, so what it the proper shock then? Not to many trailers have them anyway. I really dont think they do alot of good anyway. MHO is that the rigs are heavy and to get them to bounce high enough to make a difference...maybe. Balancing the tires makes more sense to me to stop tire shake at higher speeds. Remember, that shocks do not support any part of the weight.
Larry, Leave the shocks off!! The way they're installed on our trailers they're just extra weight and something for the tires to rub on. I left mine off when I changed out my springs before the rally last year and now after about 1500 miles I don't see or feel a difference in not having them on. The OEM ones were cheezy pieces of junk anyway and layed down the way they were limited their movement thustly wasted weight.
Gary
Gary
