N Scale Model Railroad Build

[pmmjarrett]

Thanks for the heads up on the N scale products. Looks like a hobby that I can enjoy on our 3 month stay in AZ and at home. Can build things for a layout in the trailer and put it all together at home. Going to look into it more.

There's a lot you could do when in the trailer. You could easily spend a few weeks putting together a building kit, weathering it and detailing it to look real vs a plastic or laser cut wood kit that was just slapped together in a couple hours and that's exactly what the singer Rod Stewart does when he's on the road living in hotel rooms for his huge HO scale layout.

There's tons of stuff you can do on the road. You could keep yourself busy for a month or 2 just building a bar, furnishing it, animating the ceiling fans, making neon signs, installing lighting and window treatments and really bringing it to life.

Poke around this website for tons of ideas.

If you want to play around with some track planning software and plan a layout Here's a good free one from Atlas. Downside is you can only draw plans for atlas track.

If you want to draw plans for about every scale and any brand of track you can try AnyRail demo free with no time limit and if you like it you can buy it for $59. Good software and easy to use. Demo only lets you put down about 50 pieces but it gives you a good feel if it's a good software for you without shelling out the $$$ first. Don't you wish more companies did that.

REMEMBER THIS.... It's your railroad and your hobby, make it fun for you. It doesn't have to please anyone but you. Some of us like to watch long trains run down long sections of rail, others like to operate switching puzzles in industrial yards, some just wanna sit back and watch the smiles on their kids or grand kids faces as they play, some like to model scenery and others like to model trains and detail it as close to the real prototype as possible.

Do whatever you like best, ignore the nay sayers and never be afraid to ask for help or advice. It's already obvious that we have all experience levels following and participating in this thread.

Me personally, I'm not a beginner, but I'm far far away from being a master modeler. My strong point is getting good trackwork down and being able to spot problem areas in the plans before ever laying down the track and getting smooth operation from my trains. My weak point is scenery and weathering. My goal is to change that a bit with this layout.

 

[ChopperBill]

Great links. Thanks!

 

[pmmjarrett]

OK, let's take it from the start. I'm using Atlas RightTrack Freeware 10.0 with the most current track and object libraries. The big brown truck should be here tomorrow with my goodies so here we go.

Those of you who have experience with model railroading please step in and add to this discussion and help someone who may be new avoid some of the problems we found out the hard way. It'll save them time, money and frustration.

Anyone considering the hobby, new to the hobby or whatever, feel free to step in and ask quiestions. I'll do my best to answer them and I'm sure others can answer what I can't.


Track planning 101 Here's a few basics to keep you out of trouble. I also suggest reading through the NMRA Beginners guide and reading through their site and there are several books available to guide you too.

1. You want to run the largest curves you can reasonably fit on your layout. The tight 9" curves in "N" scale are OK for small locomotives like a GP30, SD35, F7 2-8-2 mikado or 2-8-0 constellation pulling 2 bay hoppers or 40' (3") boxcars but not good for larger modern equipment, passenger cars or articulated steam locomotives like the Big Boy or Challenger. I preffer 15" and larger curves but won't go less than 12.5" which is where I'm at on this small layout and I'm pushing it here as many places will be close to the edge of the layout.

2. When planning a layout you want to avoid "S" curves. If you need/want to place 2 curve in an "S" shape to clear an obsticle or for visual impact you need to place a section of straight as long as the longest cars you are running between them. Not doing this will result in derailments and unwanted uncoupling..... Usually derailments.

2. Same thing applies to turnouts if you need to put in a crossover to a parrallel track, build a yard, build an industrial spur or are building a switching puzzle for a layout. Especially true with small turnouts lie #4 and #5. If you have room use longer turnouts like #6 or above to do a crossover, the longer the better. If you are short on space integrate a small turnout into a curve.

Same applies building a Yard or ladder

The type of layout I am building is called a "Folded Dog Bone" A Dogbone layout is just a single track loop shaped somewhat like a bone, by elevating and folding one end over the other you double the length of the mainline in the same space and add a lot more interest as the trains appear to move in both directions as it makes it's way through tunnels and bridges.

Dogbone

Folded dogbone red is elevated over grey tracks

Once you have the basic mainline down then you can modify it by adding industrial spurs, interchanges, passing sidings or whatever. Here's my Final 36" x 80" folded dogbone layout. Minimum curve radius is 12.5". My mainline track length is almost 33 ft which is 1 scale mile in "N" scale. At 20 scale MPH it will take 3 minutes to make a lap around the track. I have 2 spurs and an interchange where I could easily expand the layout down the road if I choose to. Grades are a bit steep at 4% on a small layout like this. I could get this one down to 3% but I want the added height for a little eye candy as the train crosses the long tall curved wooden trestle by the waterfall in the back. The train is fairly short at 15 cars so 2 long diesel power units should be fine here. Steep grades are a much bigger issue for steam locomotives. Especially the ones that don't have traction tires.

Next is benchwork. Hopefully do that tomorrow.

 

[pmmjarrett]

Today made a trip to Home Depot for the 36" x 80" Hollow Core door and the folding table legs and I finished the simple benchwork. Got my first of 2 orders from M.B. Klein (modeltrainstuff.com) Crying shame the 2 orders I place which shipped the same day, the big order that had 2 big boxes shipped UPS ground arrived today and I'm still waiting for the small box that was shipped USPS priority mail. Hopefully they arn't waiting for the postal service gorrilla to finish playing with it before they deliver it.

Have a couple items on order at my local hobby shop too that should be in Friday.





A few abriviations I will use thoughout the build and that you'll find on model railroading forums.

1. LHS - Local hobby shop
2. HCD - Hollow core door

Benchwork 101.

Benchwoork can be built from 1x lumber and plywood, 1x lumber and homosote board, foam etc... many people including myself use hollow core doors for N scale becase they are inexpensive, sturdy, light and easy to put together with no woodworking skills needed.

You can build your benchwork at any height you want. Me I want a table/desk height because of my arthritis. Downside is it's a little too easy to access by unsupervised kids, both 2 and 4 legged.

Lay out the parts, HCD and Table legs. I built this on the living room floor, not a messy job. The few pieces of wood I cut I did just outside in the carport with a cordless saw.

Assemble the table legs. These legs are cheap and poorly manufactured, They have mixed reviews on Home Depots website and it's easy to see why. Need to redrill the holes to bolt the 2 halves together because nothing lines up well enough to push the bolt through.

Next you need to give the sscrews something to bite into for the legs. The HCD isn't thick enough. Me I used some pieces of 1x8 I had laying around. 1x4, 2x4, plywood, whatever will work. You only need wood in the area where the legs screw to the HCD. I cut them 36" long to give the screws something to bite into on the edges of the door when intalling them.

Glue and screw these wood pieces to the door. Liquid nails, wood glue, whatever you have will work. I used 1-5/8" drywall screws and some Loctite adhesive I had laying around the shop.

Now you are ready to mount the legs. I keep the legs at the edge of the table so if someone of size decides to lean on it or falls against it and uses it to catch themselves, it doesn't flip up on end.

Double check the latches for the legs are in the correct position and that they correctly lock into place. On one set of legs they had the mounts upside down so I had to flip everything after I already had it installed.

Flip the table over and the bench work is done.

Now it's ready for the fun stuff. This table is big enough to build the Woodland Scenics Scenic Ridge Kit as it's designed to be built into a 36" x 72" layout or to modify like I'm going to modify it into a 36" x 80" layout. Whatever you do with an HCD layout, don't lay track directly on the door, these hollow doors amplify the noise of the electric motors and wheels on the track and the noise will drive you insane..... or make you a lot crazier than you already are. At the very least lay down a 3/4" sheet of blue foam insulation before putting down roadbed and track if you just want to build a simple loop of track or whatever for a layout.

Tomorrow I'll get into laying out the track plan from the software onto the door.

 

[ChopperBill]

Thanks for the updates! Looking forward to more. Told Renee it was about $130 for the steam engine I wanted. Guess what hit the fan! "For and little 6 inch choo-choo?!" Hehe gotta do this discretely.

 

[pmmjarrett]

Thanks for the updates! Looking forward to more. Told Renee it was about $130 for the steam engine I wanted. Guess what hit the fan! "For and little 6 inch choo-choo?!" Hehe gotta do this discretely.

LOL

Good thing you didn't tell her ya wanted a $400 Athearn Challenger with DCC and Tsunami sound or the $450 Kato Mikado from KOBO customs shop with a DCC controled coupler and lit firebox.

Want her to collect your life insurance..... Tell her you need a $1390 Oriental Limited Brass N scale Union Pacific 4-8-8-4 Big Boy

What Loco are you looking for and what road name. I'll keep my eye's open for ya.


Just finished getting the track plan onto the door and getting ready to install the sub-roadbed risers after I finish my lunch. Will update the thread tonight.

 

[pmmjarrett]

Making progress.

On the Atlas Righttrack program I set the roadbed width to "2" which matches the Woodland Scenics riser width when zoomed in to 1:1 and printed the track plan. 1:1 full scale view will print the track plan at full scale to transfer directly onto your layout. I set my printer properties to fast or fast draft to save ink when printing stuff like this. You can't see the thin light lines that printed on the plan showing the roadbed in the pics.

Layout the printed sheets, line them up and tape them together. You could glue them to the benchwork but I don't like to do that. Now if you are using the Scenics Ridge layout kit as built and the atlas snap track scenic ridge track pack you can skip all of this. The track plan is already pre-printed on the layout base.

After taping everything together and I'm happy with it, I cut out the areas to leave the trackplan and the road bed. On this I am leaving the areas that the Woodland Scenics risers will be placed.

Now trace around the plan with a Sharpie, pencil , pen ..... Remove the track plan, fold it up and save it. You will need it later when it's time to lay the roadbed and track on top of the risers.

Time to get to work. I am using Woodland Scenics low temp glue sticks and their glue gun to attach the foam risers to the benchwork. Fast and works very well. Very strong bond.

I pin the risers to the benchwork so they stay in place as you glue them. Much easier if your benchwork is foam. A light tap with a hammer sets them OK into an HCD but they bend really easy.

This is where I left off tonight. The bulk of the risers and inclines are installed, should finish up this portion and cut out the bridge locations tomorrow.

 

[pmmjarrett]

My feet and back are not doing so well today so I'm building bridges. The Code 55 Atlas bridges need to be assembled unlike the code 80 bridges.

These are the 6" through plate girder bridges. These bridges have nice detail and are easy to assemble but you need a magnifying glass and a #000 phillips screwdriver to install 4 of the tiniest screws I have ever seen. Those things are smaller than the screws in my glasses. once you have the screws holding the track and 2 bottom pieces of the bridge together the sides just snap in place. No glue needed.

I weathered the parts with the Rustall system using bottle #3 dead flat and #1 rust. I painted the track and some details with Floquil paint markers using rail brown, tie brown and rust. If you decide to paint the rails make sure you clean the paint off of the top of the rails immediatly. Also try not to get paint where the rail joiners go. You can paint the rail joiner area after you have soldered the track together.

 

[ChopperBill]

Heck this is more fun than doing it myself! Less expensive too! I like that rusty effect. Keep 'em coming, and no slacking off.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Mike, wow, this is what I get for being away from my putor for 10 days. Model trains are cool. I still have my Lionel train set that my dad bought for me in 1947....and it still runs. I have lots of HO gauge stuff, but I am really into steam. Most of my power is Macado's, Bigboys, and Challengers with heavy Pullmans. Good luck with your new setup.

 

[pmmjarrett]

Heck this is more fun than doing it myself! Less expensive too! I like that rusty effect. Keep 'em coming, and no slacking off.

This is a union shop and I'm not allowed to work too fast.

You'll like the set of bridges I'm working on right now, another 6" Plate girder bride and a 10" through truss bridge that will pretty much be the center piece of the layout. The last 2 go toward the back of the layout over the river.



Hi Bob, I love steam but really like the modern stuff too. Got burnt out on the early poor running steam offerings in N scale years ago but some have really stepped up to the plate the last few years Used to buy the loco then spend more than you paid for it to modify them to run right. I see a Kato SP 4449 GS4 excursion pulling the Morning Daylight in my future........ Or an Athern Challenger in the Ghost scheme pulling a set of Kato smoothside cars.

 

[pmmjarrett]

For those interested in getting started but with little $$ to do it, you may want to look into the Atlas Trainman N scale starter sets. These are complete with loco, rolling stock, power pack and track. Besides the pricy Kato sets, this is all I could recommend.

You can get them at M.B. Klein for 89.99 + shipping. and there is a figure 8 expansion set available to turn this set into a 24" x 56" layout for $19.99 + shipping

You can also buy more Code 65 true track pieces to expand further and modify it if you want.

More GP15 locomotives are available separatly if you want to run a double or triple header for $44.99 right now


The Atlas sets come with a GP15 locomotive with a 5 pole motor so they should run smooth, the Atlas locomotives I've had in the past ran very well, I would buy them again.

These sets also have knuckle couplers which you won't find in most starter sets. They are accumate couplers which I'm not fond of but they can always be upgraded to microtrains couplers in the future if you have problems with unwanted uncoupling. Knucke couplers also allow you to add almost any of the current offerings of rolling stock with no problems or modifications to them. You can also put almost any locomotive available these days you desire in front of the rolling stock that came with the set.

This could get you started on a tight budget get up and running quickly and allow you to expand and learn as you go. You don't have to spend a grand to get started.

As you get tired of just watching the train run in circles you should concentrate on modeling which is what it's all about. Start building some scenery. Go ahead and permanently fixt the track to your benchwork, learn to carefully solder the rail joiners for 100% reliable operation and learn to make that plastic roadbed look real by adding a little bit of matching ballast applied to the seams of the true track and some blackwash and painting the sides of the rails. Learn to weather your rolling stock and locomotives. Learn how to make realistic looking buildings............ You can spend the rest of your life modeling, learning and keeping the mind active. Beats watching soap operas and reruns all day.

You could start with a starter set like this, be up and running in an hour, but you could spend years really making the layout the way you want it. There is no hurry to do this, if you have a deadline, it's too much like a job. It's supposed to be fun.

 

[pmmjarrett]

Just finished up the last plate girder bridge.

This one I painted with Testors flat gray primer and heavily weathered it with a coat of rust, then black wash, 2 more coats of rust, then added dust and once more over it with black wash.

She's pretty rusty and grimey. The trestle will get the same treatment.

OOPS, I need to touch up the bottom because I was impatient.

 

[ChopperBill]

What is the reason for different track codes? It seems that Code 55 is the ultimate for model building, from what I have been reading. Why would I want to start out with the code 65 track sets? Could I run the code 65 trains on a 55 track? Telling you I know NOTHING about this hobby!

 

[pmmjarrett]

What is the reason for different track codes? It seems that Code 55 is the ultimate for model building, from what I have been reading. Why would I want to start out with the code 65 track sets? Could I run the code 65 trains on a 55 track? Telling you I know NOTHING about this hobby!

Code 55 is the choice for finescale modeling as it looks the most prototypical for rail height and tie spacing. Code 80 is the "old stuff" with tall rails, and in the case of atlas code 80, the ties are black and spaced way too far apart.

Some of the old locomotives and freight cars with standard profile wheels won't run well on some code 55 track(atlas code 55 track is one with that problem) becaause the tall wheel flanges hit the molded spike heads that hold the rail to the ties. (Microtrains standard profile wheels are one that is really bad for that.) The cure for the freight cars is simple, replace the wheelsets with a good quality low profile wheelsets. There is no cure for most of the old locos but to remove and machine the wheels unless you can find RP25 profile replacement wheels.

The code 65 Atlas true track which is similar to Kato Unitrack but a whole lot cheaper has a molded in plastic roadbed that looks like gravel ballast and is great for those that don't want to have to ballast the track. Being a slightly taller profile but not too tall is a compromise for those that want to finescale model with it and for those that have older equipment that has trouble with code 55.

The locomotives in that set won't have a problem on Code 55 and I seriously doubt the cars would either. Atlas has been putting low profile wheels on their rolling stock for several years now.

Where you're really going to see the difference in the trainmaster line is in details. They won't have the fine scale details like the more expensive stuff out there. That's where they save money to offer these at a lower price. I'd venture to guess they found a way to market and sell the stuff they used to make with the "old molds" Stuff that is no longer appealing to modelers who are demanding more and are willing to pay for it.

Less separatly applied finescale detail also makes them more user friendly, especially for kids.... And grandkids. What do you want your 5 year old grand kid playing with..... That super detailed $400 Big boy with sound you saved long and hard for and some super detailed rolling stock you have about $25 a car invested and countless hours of modeling or a $90 train set that can take a beating as the kid is going to make his/her own sounds anyways...... WoooooWoooooo. Just pick it up off the floor, put the wheels back on and all is well with the world again.

I love my grand daughter and she can play trains all she wants but I'm hiding the Big Boy before she gets here.


Now the trainman post wasn't aimed at you. My point with the Atlas Trainman post was ...1) I didn't even know Atlas was putting out an N scale set much less with one that had a locomotive with a flywheel equipped 5 pole motor and DCC ready with drop in decoders available. I used to have a set of Atlas GP30s and they ran very smooth and very quiet. 2) Model railroading isn't just for elitest that can spend thousands of $$$$$$ on trains. There is some initial start up costs but it can be kept down to a dull roar and just grow it from there. Besides, if you start slow and really like it and show mama that you are really into the modeling aspect by continually making the small layout come to life as you add scenery and buildings, she'll prolly buy you that $130 loco herself and surprise you.

The Bachmann sets I see all the time, especially this time of year, run like slot cars with their noisy 3 pole motors and a speed controller with only 8 or 9 steps, no slow speed control at all, and the good Kato sets are expensive. Now Bachmann did have some N scale spectrum sets a while back, one with a spectrum 2-8-0 constellation and a better controller. They are very hard to find. The Bachmann track also leaves a lot to be desired.


Here's a 36" x 80" hollow core door track plan that I whipped up that uses the Atlas Trainmaster set, The Trainmaster track expantion pack to make a figure 8.... Plus 3 more packs of 6" straight track (6 per package), 1 pack of bumpers (2 per package) and 2 right turnouts and leaves nothing left over and wasted. Gives you a couple spurs and a large area to model a town.

Total cost to set this up, if ordered through Modeltrainstuff.com AND the door, table legs and a sheet of blue foam from Home Depot is about $250 give or take a little for shipping cost of the train set and track pieces.

 

[ChopperBill]

Being new into this I would probably go with the code 55 then. Dont think I would ever buy someones used problems. Sure see a lot of Bachmann stuff but sorta figured it may not be the best from what little I have read. Looked at a RR magazine yesterday and saw Rod Stewarts layout. WOW!

 

[pmmjarrett]

The bridge building crew was hard at work finishing up the Atlas Through Truss bridge. The pieces were painted in Testors flat grey primer, coated with 1 coat of rust and 2 coats of black wash. I like the way it turned out.

I had an idea for a life scene today as I was rusting up this bridge and thinking about how I got a little carried away with the last plate girder bridge I did. I need to get a bridge painting crew to work on it sandblasting and getting some of that green primer on it.

This truss bridge is 10" long and the track section is two pieces. Me I always solder the rail joiners on every joint. You only need a little heat from the soldering iron and these joiners take solder fast so don't keep the iron on too long and don't put a big goober of solder on them. The heat will draw the solder into the joint. Too much heat will melt the surrounding plasic and draw in the rails damaging the joint often to where that section is not usable so be carefull.

Dangit, that reminds me I forgot to order a section of Micro Engineering code 55 bridge flex track for the curved trestle I need to build.

After soldering, check your work with an NMRA track gauge, Every model railroader should have one of these no matter what scale/ gauge you model. If evrything is lined up perfectly you can move on to the next one. If not, you will need to make adjustments or replace the track and start over if it's too far out of wack and you can't correct it with a minor adjustment with some needle nose pliers .

I'm really pleased with the way this bridge came out.

 

[pmmjarrett]

Being new into this I would probably go with the code 55 then. Dont think I would ever buy someones used problems. Sure see a lot of Bachmann stuff but sorta figured it may not be the best from what little I have read. Looked at a RR magazine yesterday and saw Rod Stewarts layout. WOW!

Now Bachmann does make some decent stuff in HO but there N scale is seriously lacking.

Rod's layout is just incredible, of course his budget is a bit more than at least 99.9% of us here too and he has help building it. When I read the article and saw the pictures I didn't feel jealous, it inspired me and taught me a few things and I'm gratefull he shared that small portion of his personal life. His scenes got me thinking hard about super detailing a small layout over time. How far can I push the level of detail in a small layout with the products available today.

How about a life scene with a Semi tractor and trailer that was rear ended by a car at a traffic light. Well the details and electronics are available for the operating traffic signals, lights on emergency vehicles, 4 way flashers on the truck and trailer, lit road flares etc. Nobody was injured BTW, just a little bent metal.

How about operational crossing gates with lights and bells and prototypical track signaling. completely doable with infa red sensors.

How about some homeless people under the bridge around a lit trash barrel.

Those are just 3 of the scenes in my mind I want to model. Your imagination is the limit.

 

[pmmjarrett]

Most of the foam sub roadbed is finished exept for the overpass section in the tunnel area. The areas for the bridges are cut out and I have placed plaster cloth over the risers of the lower track in the tunnel area so I can lay that portion of hidden track down tomorrow and then I can work on getting the overpass installed.

I must also thank my biggest helper and my best friend in the world, My adopted 80 lb Lab / Rottweiler mix that insists on laying in the small space I have to move about the layout when I'm working on it. She of course knows the best place to lay..... Right in between the layout and the box of materials I am using, my recliner and the entrance to the kitchen. Yep, she has that perfect spot right in the middle of the intersection covered...... All 80 lbs of her, she doesn't miss a trick.... And she won't move either unless you actually bump or step on her or food is involved.

 

[pmmjarrett]

Just found an old stash of some Atlas Code 80 snap track I have off a layout I tore apart years ago and thought I'd do a couple comparision shots with the code 55 for those not familiar with these products. Now the Atlas code 80 which doesn't look as nice as the code 55 is an excellent product that performs well and I used it for many years. It can be painted and weathered to look a lot better. It's also a bit cheaper than the code 55 offerings.

For those familiar with modern era equipment. Here is the Code 55 bottom and code 80 top compared to an SD75M locomotive.

For familiar with steam, transition and early diesel era equipment. Here is the Code 55 bottom and code 80 top compared to a 33' 2 bay hopper.