New guy on forum, ford diesel tech

[jbeletti]

I had the recall Flash and LOF done yesterday in Las Crues, NM. I was in and out in about 3 hours. No noticeable difference in the truck just yet.

 

[BigJim45]

I had the recall Flash and LOF done yesterday in Las Crues, NM. I was in and out in about 3 hours. No noticeable difference in the truck just yet.

Also had my F250 done yesterday. Service Mgr said it will take 2 - 3. Was in and out in 1.5 hours

 

[wdk450]

Here's a generic diesel truck question: Outside of oil/filters changes, is there a generic diesel service akin to a "tuneup" on a gasoline engine? My 04 Dodge Cummins IL-6 5.9L just turned over 150K miles. I had the valves adjusted at 100K miles. I have replaced the water pump (twice) and have added an EGT gauge and exhaust brake. I use a diesel fuel additive.

Do I need to have my injectors proactively checked/replaced?

BTW, what is your recommendation on a red line EGT reading? My sensor is in the exhaust manifold combined tube before the turbo. I have been red lining at 1200 degrees F, getting concerned at 1000 degrees.

Thanks for your expertise.

 

[JanAndBill]

I guess I will put in my 2 cents worth. I have a 2006 F250 6.0 Long Bed. I have the EGR Delete and SCT Program to kill the warning light and add a 65hp in the towing setting, which I leave in at all times.
I have 203k + miles on it. I have a great technician here in McKinney TX, Powerflo Diesel. Great place for all diesel work.

He, and others have told me that the head gaskets will go, not if they will go out.

I can regularly get 10mpg towing on even highways. Get about 17mpg around town with no trailer.

Only thing I would like to have is an exhaust break or such but I don't think one can be installed on the 6.0.

Glad you're on the forum. It's nice to have someone with your experience.

BC

I have an 2006 F350 with the 6.0 and 4.10 rears. EGR delete and the SCT Livewire programmer, and a ScanGuage for monitoring because it's smaller. Just about everyone I know who has had the 6.0 has lifted the heads at one time or another. The fact that you've got that many miles on the truck without, means you're probably not pushing it that hard. Increased cylinder pressure from the use of a controller will stretch the stock head bolts. Turbo pressures in excess of 40# will also (don't ask, just advise staying out of SCT's performance mode). I'm also surprised you have't had to replace the oil cooler yet.

So far I've replaced the stock head bolts with ARP studs, and actually went back with a Ford head gasket (I was told by several including a Ford tech that the gasket was as good as any). Replaced the oil cooler. Added a coolant filter. Upgraded the fuel pressure spring. Replaced the FICM (stayed with 48 volt). Rebuilt and cleaned the the turbo (the vanes actually open and close now). Straight 4" exhausts so it can breathe. Everything else is pretty much stock until I save up a little more play money.

I've never found a need to use anything but the 55 hp tow setting on the SCT, under load. I revert to street when not towing. Under load I average between 10 and 11 mpg, depending on terrain and wind. Usually try to hold it to about 67 up hill and down. On the street mode I've logged as high as 24 mpg average. This thing will bark when you get on it, and it's hard not to let it loose when a rice burner pulls up beside me.

I've had an up close and personal relationship with this engine, and found it to be every bit as good (if not better) than the old 7.3, once it's been modified By the way my SCT will allow me to program the turbo to act like an exhaust brake.

 

[brianharrison]

Here's a generic diesel truck question: Outside of oil/filters changes, is there a generic diesel service akin to a "tuneup" on a gasoline engine? My 04 Dodge Cummins IL-6 5.9L just turned over 150K miles. I had the valves adjusted at 100K miles. I have replaced the water pump (twice) and have added an EGT gauge and exhaust brake. I use a diesel fuel additive.

Do I need to have my injectors proactively checked/replaced?

BTW, what is your recommendation on a red line EGT reading? My sensor is in the exhaust manifold combined tube before the turbo. I have been red lining at 1200 degrees F, getting concerned at 1000 degrees.

Thanks for your expertise.

Hi Bill,

Long gone are our gas engines that required tune ups - points, dwell/timing adjustment, carb settings/rebuilds, spark plug replacements. Today's gas and diesel engines don't undergo tune-ups IMHO other than what you have indicated - watch fluids, change fluids and filters at recommended intervals by OEM when quality/time durations are outside of specs.

My brother in law had the same truck as you, and we always compared data when I ran my 7.3 PowerStroke. 1200F on manifold for short bursts is not into the dangerous zone, running constant 1000F is not unheard of, but they like to be around 600-900 F. Old model diesels (pre DPF and emissions add ons) liked to be run 600-900 to keep soot buildup out of valves/exhaust/turbo, muffler. Thats where the old "diesels like to be worked" expression comes from, IMHO.

Proactive replacement of worn parts (injectors) would be at an owners discretion, and knowing his/her specific truck. Sorry cant help you there.

BTW - I am intersted to hear what a Ford Master Mechanic has to say about a Dodge

Take care,
Brian

 

[wdk450]

Hi Bill,

Long gone are our gas engines that required tune ups - points, dwell/timing adjustment, carb settings/rebuilds, spark plug replacements. Today's gas and diesel engines don't undergo tune-ups IMHO other than what you have indicated - watch fluids, change fluids and filters at recommended intervals by OEM when quality/time durations are outside of specs.

My brother in law had the same truck as you, and we always compared data when I ran my 7.3 PowerStroke. 1200F on manifold for short bursts is not into the dangerous zone, running constant 1000F is not unheard of, but they like to be around 600-900 F. Old model diesels (pre DPF and emissions add ons) liked to be run 600-900 to keep soot buildup out of valves/exhaust/turbo, muffler. Thats where the old "diesels like to be worked" expression comes from, IMHO.

Proactive replacement of worn parts (injectors) would be at an owners discretion, and knowing his/her specific truck. Sorry cant help you there.

BTW - I am intersted to hear what a Ford Master Mechanic has to say about a Dodge

Take care,
Brian

Brian:
The EGT values I gave are points at which I get concerned, slow down, downshift as necessary to protect the engine on uphill grades. Normal flatland cruising is about 700 degrees. The engine coolant gauge barely elevates under these grade-climbing conditions, and I have only seen it very high when the water pump(s) blew out.

 

[bigdob24]

What's everyone's thoughts on running any of the fuel additives in a 2014 F350?
Any advantages or just run straight fuel.
I had a Chevy and one of the techs said never put anything in the fuel, wondered if it's the same advise for Fords.
Thanks
Dan

 

[travlingman]

What's everyone's thoughts on running any of the fuel additives in a 2014 F350?
Any advantages or just run straight fuel.
I had a Chevy and one of the techs said never put anything in the fuel, wondered if it's the same advise for Fords.
Thanks
Dan

I run PM-22A in every tank. Buy it at the Ford dealer. It separates the water, adds lubricity to fuel and boosts cetane. Lots of other good ones on the market, but I use Ford's brand so I have record at dealer.

 

[JanAndBill]

I run PM-22A in every tank. Buy it at the Ford dealer. It separates the water, adds lubricity to fuel and boosts cetane. Lots of other good ones on the market, but I use Ford's brand so I have record at dealer.[/QUOTE

Ditto on PM-22A. For me it seems to give a slight increase in mileage, and easier starts. I buy my from a a MC parts house by the case. After looking at other brands, the 22-A actually works out cheaper, because a bottle treats 125 gallons as compared to other brands.

 

[wdk450]

I have been using Diesel Power Plus diesel fuel additive since my local independent diesel mechanic recommended it, and says he runs it in his 2 diesel pickups. It is rated for 1 ounce to treat 32 gallons, 16 ounce bottle, which multiplies up to over 500 gallons of fuel treated by each bottle.
The distributor in San Diego actually sent me a couple of cases free (which I have tried to share as much as possible at Heartland Rallies), after I just sent him an e-mail asking some questions about the product. I think I have 1 or 2 free bottles left.

http://www.xtremediesel.com/XDP-Diesel-Power-Plus-Fuel-Additive-XDDPP116.aspx

 

[porthole]

What's everyone's thoughts on running any of the fuel additives in a 2014 F350?
Any advantages or just run straight fuel.
I had a Chevy and one of the techs said never put anything in the fuel, wondered if it's the same advise for Fords.
Thanks
Dan

I have been using diesel additives since 1991 in our first boat. Aftermarket stuff. Used it fairly consistently with my GMC, Diesel Kleen brand as that is what our marine stores sell ( and I have a commercial account).

I use the two Motorcraft branded additives consistently in my F350 (anti gel version for the winter).

For me, ordering by the case yields a lesser price on the Motorcraft brand then the other other brands, so it is a no brainer.

And as long as there is that potential issue with USA fuel lubricity I will continue to use the additives.

 

[Geodude]

I run PM-22A in every tank. Buy it at the Ford dealer. It separates the water, adds lubricity to fuel and boosts cetane. Lots of other good ones on the market, but I use Ford's brand so I have record at dealer.

Buzzactly.

 

[lwmcguir]

Buzzactly.

Do the same to be sure the extended warranty is honored if needed.

 

[StagNW]

Wow busy weekend! I missed a whole page of comments, I'll touch on all them tonight, have work to do now!

 

[StagNW]

StagNW, I wished that I could have the 6.7. I had a '03 with the 6.0 and apparently was the only one that had no problems. I just had to have the 6.4 with the dual tubos and more power. It was my retirement truck. When it was paid for, I retired. I love it anyway and I'll have it as long as it last. I'll have study a little more on the engine brake. Just thought Ford may have one I could use.

I do not know of a factory engine brake for the 6.4, they are definatly nice trucks. I would not turn my nose up at one, that's for sure. I'm glad you have a truck, I hope to retire one day, and I hope to have a truck!

Hey Mark,

I just scheduled my truck in for the 14E03 Recall and a LOF with you on February 10. See ya then!!

Rod Ditrich

this is Great Rod, I look forward to meeting you and the truck!

I guess I will put in my 2 cents worth. I have a 2006 F250 6.0 Long Bed. I have the EGR Delete and SCT Program to kill the warning light and add a 65hp in the towing setting, which I leave in at all times.
I have 203k + miles on it. I have a great technician here in McKinney TX, Powerflo Diesel. Great place for all diesel work.

He, and others have told me that the head gaskets will go, not if they will go out.

I can regularly get 10mpg towing on even highways. Get about 17mpg around town with no trailer.

Only thing I would like to have is an exhaust break or such but I don't think one can be installed on the 6.0.

Glad you're on the forum. It's nice to have someone with your experience.

BC

All mechanical things will fail eventually. It has a lot to do with cylinder pressure, I believe that if you are conservative, they will be prolonged. If you have 203 and think they are origional, I'd definatly keep my eye on the warning signs, coolant blowing out of the degas bottle. Two things to check when this happens is the cap popping properly, and the deltas between EGT and ECT, A restricted oil cooler can cause this concern as well. When the head gaskets fail the boost will overpressurize the cooling system and blow it out of the bottle.

If you have a trusted mechanic then keep him! He should be versed in getting you squared away with head studs. I'd definatly do an oil cooler at the same time.

I had the recall Flash and LOF done yesterday in Las Crues, NM. I was in and out in about 3 hours. No noticeable difference in the truck just yet.

The only difference you may notice are the TCM relearning your drive style, adaptive strategies.

Also had my F250 done yesterday. Service Mgr said it will take 2 - 3. Was in and out in 1.5 hours

the actual refashion takes less then .5hrs, getting in and out, through all the paperwork and different people takes time.

Here's a generic diesel truck question: Outside of oil/filters changes, is there a generic diesel service akin to a "tuneup" on a gasoline engine? My 04 Dodge Cummins IL-6 5.9L just turned over 150K miles. I had the valves adjusted at 100K miles. I have replaced the water pump (twice) and have added an EGT gauge and exhaust brake. I use a diesel fuel additive.

Do I need to have my injectors proactively checked/replaced?

BTW, what is your recommendation on a red line EGT reading? My sensor is in the exhaust manifold combined tube before the turbo. I have been red lining at 1200 degrees F, getting concerned at 1000 degrees.

Thanks for your expertise.

To my knowledge there is not a proven cleaning for dodge injectors, I am definatly not an expert on that. I added Brian Harrison's quote below, this is all good info that I agree with. I don't want to re type it because I am on an iPad! There is no good way to clean Ford injectors, fact. PM is the only thing that makes it last, also I believe Ford factory remains are superior. There are videos floating around somewhere of the rebuild process. It's bucks ahead.

I have an 2006 F350 with the 6.0 and 4.10 rears. EGR delete and the SCT Livewire programmer, and a ScanGuage for monitoring because it's smaller. Just about everyone I know who has had the 6.0 has lifted the heads at one time or another. The fact that you've got that many miles on the truck without, means you're probably not pushing it that hard. Increased cylinder pressure from the use of a controller will stretch the stock head bolts. Turbo pressures in excess of 40# will also (don't ask, just advise staying out of SCT's performance mode). I'm also surprised you have't had to replace the oil cooler yet.

So far I've replaced the stock head bolts with ARP studs, and actually went back with a Ford head gasket (I was told by several including a Ford tech that the gasket was as good as any). Replaced the oil cooler. Added a coolant filter. Upgraded the fuel pressure spring. Replaced the FICM (stayed with 48 volt). Rebuilt and cleaned the the turbo (the vanes actually open and close now). Straight 4" exhausts so it can breathe. Everything else is pretty much stock until I save up a little more play money.

I've never found a need to use anything but the 55 hp tow setting on the SCT, under load. I revert to street when not towing. Under load I average between 10 and 11 mpg, depending on terrain and wind. Usually try to hold it to about 67 up hill and down. On the street mode I've logged as high as 24 mpg average. This thing will bark when you get on it, and it's hard not to let it loose when a rice burner pulls up beside me.

I've had an up close and personal relationship with this engine, and found it to be every bit as good (if not better) than the old 7.3, once it's been modified By the way my SCT will allow me to program the turbo to act like an exhaust brake.

i would do everything exactly the same if I had your truck. I believe your choices are conservative and are upgrades for the power plant. And I agree, the 6.0 is a good engine, and I believe would be very reliable if not pushed too far. I would not be afraid to own one, personally.

Hi Bill,

Long gone are our gas engines that required tune ups - points, dwell/timing adjustment, carb settings/rebuilds, spark plug replacements. Today's gas and diesel engines don't undergo tune-ups IMHO other than what you have indicated - watch fluids, change fluids and filters at recommended intervals by OEM when quality/time durations are outside of specs.

My brother in law had the same truck as you, and we always compared data when I ran my 7.3 PowerStroke. 1200F on manifold for short bursts is not into the dangerous zone, running constant 1000F is not unheard of, but they like to be around 600-900 F. Old model diesels (pre DPF and emissions add ons) liked to be run 600-900 to keep soot buildup out of valves/exhaust/turbo, muffler. Thats where the old "diesels like to be worked" expression comes from, IMHO.

Proactive replacement of worn parts (injectors) would be at an owners discretion, and knowing his/her specific truck. Sorry cant help you there.

BTW - I am intersted to hear what a Ford Master Mechanic has to say about a Dodge

Take care,
Brian

Agreed, this is very good info! My thoughts on a Dodge ? Or the cummins they put under the hood? :-D I've owned a cummins and loved it! I believe that up to 2010, dodge had a superior power plant due to reliability and simplicity. Now the rest of the truck there is a lot to be desired, especially compared to the Ford and Gm. Take a 2006 f350 lariat, and put a 24v common rail in it, now that's a truck. Dodges fit and finish, transmission and optioned amenities were meh. I'd own another dodge with a cummins, no problem... But only if I couldn't afford a 6.7 PS!

What's everyone's thoughts on running any of the fuel additives in a 2014 F350?
Any advantages or just run straight fuel.
I had a Chevy and one of the techs said never put anything in the fuel, wondered if it's the same advise for Fords.
Thanks
Dan

I run PM-22A in every tank. Buy it at the Ford dealer. It separates the water, adds lubricity to fuel and boosts cetane. Lots of other good ones on the market, but I use Ford's brand so I have record at dealer.

I run PM-22A in every tank. Buy it at the Ford dealer. It separates the water, adds lubricity to fuel and boosts cetane. Lots of other good ones on the market, but I use Ford's brand so I have record at dealer.[/QUOTE

Ditto on PM-22A. For me it seems to give a slight increase in mileage, and easier starts. I buy my from a a MC parts house by the case. After looking at other brands, the 22-A actually works out cheaper, because a bottle treats 125 gallons as compared to other brands.

The above three quotes go together. To my knowledge Ford is the only manufacturer that produces a cetane booster or anti-gel. And I agree, and have used it in my trucks. I have many customers that use it regularly. I believe that our fuel in the Pacific Northwest region is garbage compared to other regions. One of my reasons for this is an engineer told me they have had complaints from where the truck was manufactured and fueled, in Kentucky, to where is finds its home, and milage drastically dips and its a complaint. The cetane booster adds lubricity to the fuel system, most components are lubricated by the diesel. Therefore more lubricity the better, in my opinion, cheap insurance. And you may see a bump in milage depending on region.

 

[porthole]

To my knowledge Ford is the only manufacturer that produces a cetane booster or anti-gel. And I agree, and have used it in my trucks. I have many customers that use it regularly. I believe that our fuel in the Pacific Northwest region is garbage compared to other regions. One of my reasons for this is an engineer told me they have had complaints from where the truck was manufactured and fueled, in Kentucky, to where is finds its home, and milage drastically dips and its a complaint. The cetane booster adds lubricity to the fuel system, most components are lubricated by the diesel. Therefore more lubricity the better, in my opinion, cheap insurance. And you may see a bump in milage depending on region.

I am reasonably sure Ford/Motorcraft do not manufacture any of their labeled "chemicals".

It has been long rumored (by checking product labels and MSDS sheets) the Stanadyne is most likely the supplier of Motorcraft PM-22 & 23. Gold Eagle's DieselPower! is also rumored to be a potential supplier.


Emails in this grouping from the NHTSA suggest that PM-22 & 23 are "suppled" as well.
There is some good reading in this list, especially with the comments that it is possible to put up to 10% water by volume in the fuel tank and the WIF light will not come on.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM416584/INRD-EA11003-50107P.pdf

There are dozens of Cetane booster suppliers listed on the EPA's website.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/registrationfuels/web-addt.htm

an engineer told me they have had complaints from where the truck was manufactured and fueled, in Kentucky, to where is finds its home, a

According to email from the above list, this is true as the trucks are filled at the KTP with an additive to meet the fuel requirements for the engine.

 

[Rodbuster]

Just found a gallon of Motorcraft PM-22 fuel additive. It's about 1/2 full and maybe 2 years old.
Is there a shelf life to this stuff.

My thought is to chuck it just to be safe.
Is there any other use for it?

Thank you
Dick

 

[StagNW]

I am reasonably sure Ford/Motorcraft do not manufacture any of their labeled "chemicals".

It has been long rumored (by checking product labels and MSDS sheets) the Stanadyne is most likely the supplier of Motorcraft PM-22 & 23. Gold Eagle's DieselPower! is also rumored to be a potential supplier.


Emails in this grouping from the NHTSA suggest that PM-22 & 23 are "suppled" as well.
There is some good reading in this list, especially with the comments that it is possible to put up to 10% water by volume in the fuel tank and the WIF light will not come on.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM416584/INRD-EA11003-50107P.pdf

There are dozens of Cetane booster suppliers listed on the EPA's website.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/registrationfuels/web-addt.htm





According to email from the above list, this is true as the trucks are filled at the KTP with an additive to meet the fuel requirements for the engine.

Alright porthole, allow me to clarify; Ford is the only one I know of that produces one with their name on it, thus making it the recommended fuel additive for the engine. There may be 10 with the same formula by the same chemical manufacturer, however for all intensive purposes of why I'm here, I refer to the one that ford puts their name on, the one ford stands behind, and the one that can leave a paper trail in the customers favor of their warrenty.

The link to the 535 page PDF email chain you supplied is fantastic, however the legal waver that's on it saying it's confidential info is fairly blatant, not to mention the fact that the info is far more technical then 99.9 percent of the people on this thread would understand, need to know or is relevant to their trucks. It's not helpful and if they took the time to read it, would probably cause more unnecessary fear and anxiety about their trucks.

The reason I've posted on here is to share experiences, help people have a better understanding and relationship with their trucks and to learn from them! I'm gaining an understanding of what I don't know, especially the practical usage questions I recieve. I've asked you to cite your sources, on the coolant test procedure, and you failed to do so. If you are a Ford engineer, or Senior Diesel Technician then please excuse me, you're welcome to take over this thread and there would be a ton of stuff I could learn from you, and I'd really be appreciative. If not then maybe you could start another thread and we could debate technical info, procedures, updates and engineering.

That at being said; you could have 100% water in the fuel tank, and the WIF light would not come on because the sensor is not in the tank, it's in the low pressure fuel pump. So if you had 10% water in your fuel tank, water is heavier then diesel, so it would sink to the bottom where the pickup tube is, and inevitably some would make it into the fuel lines, and then it would meet the Horizontal Fuel Conditioning Module, low pressure fuel pump which is engineered to condition the fuel separating the water to the bottom where the WIF sensor and drain are located. This is why I preach draining the separator often. The fuel lines are always above this so the water falls and fuel continues. It's engineered well and I do not believe it's an issue on these trucks, lack of maintenance is.

Best wishes.

 

[lwmcguir]

Alright porthole, allow me to clarify; Ford is the only one I know of that produces one with their name on it, thus making it the recommended fuel additive for the engine. There may be 10 with the same formula by the same chemical manufacturer, however for all intensive purposes of why I'm here, I refer to the one that ford puts their name on, the one ford stands behind, and the one that can leave a paper trail in the customers favor of their warrenty.

The link to the 535 page PDF email chain you supplied is fantastic, however the legal waver that's on it saying it's confidential info is fairly blatant, not to mention the fact that the info is far more technical then 99.9 percent of the people on this thread would understand, need to know or is relevant to their trucks. It's not helpful and if they took the time to read it, would probably cause more unnecessary fear and anxiety about their trucks.

The reason I've posted on here is to share experiences, help people have a better understanding and relationship with their trucks and to learn from them! I'm gaining an understanding of what I don't know, especially the practical usage questions I recieve. I've asked you to cite your sources, on the coolant test procedure, and you failed to do so. If you are a Ford engineer, or Senior Diesel Technician then please excuse me, you're welcome to take over this thread and there would be a ton of stuff I could learn from you, and I'd really be appreciative. If not then maybe you could start another thread and we could debate technical info, procedures, updates and engineering.

That at being said; you could have 100% water in the fuel tank, and the WIF light would not come on because the sensor is not in the tank, it's in the low pressure fuel pump. So if you had 10% water in your fuel tank, water is heavier then diesel, so it would sink to the bottom where the pickup tube is, and inevitably some would make it into the fuel lines, and then it would meet the Horizontal Fuel Conditioning Module, low pressure fuel pump which is engineered to condition the fuel separating the water to the bottom where the WIF sensor and drain are located. This is why I preach draining the separator often. The fuel lines are always above this so the water falls and fuel continues. It's engineered well and I do not believe it's an issue on these trucks, lack of maintenance is.

Best wishes.

Great Post, Thanks for taking the time

 

[Geodude]

I received my love note from Ford today on the recall. I expect my oil change reminder to make an appearance any time now, so will schedule both at the same time.