New Tow Vehicle advice requested

[TravelTiger]

The DRW has a better payload, but do you really need it....

Vehicles PIN Weight is 3710 lbs which is about 1500 lbs more than my rigs pin weight.

I am confused by these statements. What vehicle pin weight are you talking about? The payload of the truck? If it's 3710, that's pretty low. That has to handle the weight of your hitch, passengers, pets, any stuff in the cab, anything else in the bed (tools, etc), plus the pin weight of the loaded rig.

And 1500 more than rig pin weight... what pin weight are you referencing? A dry pin weight from the brochure?

Dry pin weight is NOT what your rig weighs. You are probably looking at a loaded pin weight of your rig of closer to 3k.

Check out http://fifthwheelst.com/rvtc_calculator.html




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[gslabbert5119]

Thanks I will check it out, but what I was attempting to say is that the 2500 or 250 can easily & legally handle the towing weight as well being legal. The towing weight is over 31k but these number do not always relate in my brain.
Sorry for any confusion, for i am attempting to tap into a 2 year old discussion in a 65 year old brain. I doesnt always work that way it should ... lol ...

Here are the specs off the Ford site

Maximum Conventional Towing	21,000 lbs.
Maximum 5th Wheel Towing	27,500 lbs.
Maximum Gooseneck Towing	32,500 lbs.
Maximum Payload	7,630 lbs.
Maximum GVWR	14,000 lbs.

I am confused by these statements. What vehicle pin weight are you talking about? The payload of the truck? If it's 3710, that's pretty low. That has to handle the weight of your hitch, passengers, pets, any stuff in the cab, anything else in the bed (tools, etc), plus the pin weight of the loaded rig.

And 1500 more than rig pin weight... what pin weight are you referencing? A dry pin weight from the brochure?

Dry pin weight is NOT what your rig weighs. You are probably looking at a loaded pin weight of your rig of closer to 3k.

Check out http://fifthwheelst.com/rvtc_calculator.html




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[TravelTiger]

Thanks I will check it out, but what I was attempting to say is that the 2500 or 250 can easily & legally handle the towing weight as well being legal. The towing weight is over 31k but these number do not always relate in my brain.
Sorry for any confusion, for i am attempting to tap into a 2 year old discussion in a 65 year old brain. I doesnt always work that way it should ... lol ...

Here are the specs off the Ford site

Maximum Conventional Towing	21,000 lbs.
Maximum 5th Wheel Towing	27,500 lbs.
Maximum Gooseneck Towing	32,500 lbs.
Maximum Payload	7,630 lbs.
Maximum GVWR	14,000 lbs.

Ok, those numbers are for your exact make/model/cab style/bed/engine size/4x2?




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[danemayer]

One of ways that manufacturers make it difficult for us is that they publish "up to" or "maximum" numbers. Those claims usually are for a very specific configuration that no one actually buys.

I think if you look inside the drivers side door on your truck, you'll find a maximum load or maximum payload spec for your truck and it won't say 7,630 lbs. More likely it's going to say something like 2,800 lbs.

If you can't find that number, you can probably find an actual GVWR for the truck, from which you can subtract your actual curb weight. That will also give you the maximum payload, although you could have weak link components that reduce it even further. I'll be pretty surprised if there is any F250 with a GVWR of 14,000 lbs.

When you have the real numbers, and go to a weigh station, you'll probably find that you're actually way, way over the payload rating for the truck.

And no doubt it tows just fine with the airbags. But if you ever have to tow in adverse weather conditions and have an emergency situation, like a sudden lane change, the story might be different.

 

[gslabbert5119]

Good guess, but not correct.
The sticker says the following ...
GVWR 10,000 lbs (4536kg)
Rear GAWR 6100 lbs

Do you require a photo ?

One of ways that manufacturers make it difficult for us is that they publish "up to" or "maximum" numbers. Those claims usually are for a very specific configuration that no one actually buys.

I think if you look inside the drivers side door on your truck, you'll find a maximum load or maximum payload spec for your truck and it won't say 7,630 lbs. More likely it's going to say something like 2,800 lbs.

If you can't find that number, you can probably find an actual GVWR for the truck, from which you can subtract your actual curb weight. That will also give you the maximum payload, although you could have weak link components that reduce it even further. I'll be pretty surprised if there is any F250 with a GVWR of 14,000 lbs.

When you have the real numbers, and go to a weigh station, you'll probably find that you're actually way, way over the payload rating for the truck.

And no doubt it tows just fine with the airbags. But if you ever have to tow in adverse weather conditions and have an emergency situation, like a sudden lane change, the story might be different.

 

[danemayer]

Good guess, but not correct.
The sticker says the following ...
GVWR 10,000 lbs (4536kg)
Rear GAWR 6100 lbs

Do you require a photo ?

And the Curb Weight, or Payload?

 

[gslabbert5119]

Not on the sticker that I can see

Max Payload rating for my specific truck is 3760 lbs

And the Curb Weight, or Payload?

 

[gslabbert5119]

My apologies for hijacking the thread, but my contentment with my truck and that it meets all the legal requirements as well as ease of towing and emergency stopping all continue to hold true despite what may be suggested yet not proven IMO.

 

[recumbent615]

No problem on the Hijacking -

I went into this knowing full well that discussions other than my questions would happen - that is what I love about this club/forum. Great people and diversity of experience. I personally have spent the last 6 years towing with a 2500 Diesel and it has performed well enough and since I had the truck when I bought my Rig - I purchased the rig for the truck. now that I am in the market for a new ( used ) truck i want to make sure it is more truck than I need today - so if I decide to get a new rig I am not limited by the tow vehicle.

 

[gslabbert5119]

If I decide to get a new rig I am not limited by the tow vehicle.

That makes it pretty simple then, buy the truck that best fits into your budget and your anticipated needs. For me though, a Dually really does not work, as I my truck doubles as a personal vehicle, and I found that the dually was just too cumbersome in a relatively large city, plus a 39' rig is about as long as I am prepared to go.
Further, from what I am reading (and this may be incorrect so do not take it as gospel) the newer rigs in similar sizes of yesteryear are getting lighter and this could play a part in your evaluation.

Now, I am not a Ford, Chevy or Ram guy and I purchased the most powerful truck with the largest towing capacity that I could find in my price range, and that turned out to be the Ford f250 Super Duty 6.7L diesel at the time of my purchase, and that too may not hold true any longer with manufacturers being what they are.

Good luck in your search.

 

[porthole]

Kevin, if you recall, when we ordered the Cyclone I did not want go bigger because I wanted something my 2006 GMC could handle. And when I ordered the GMC I waited until mid 2016 because of the changes, there were several differences over your 2005. I also did multiple upgrades to the GMC to get ready for the Cyclone.

And as you know, we used that for about a year before I ordered the DRW.
I would guess we are a bit heavier then you with the same trailer, so the DRW really helps.
But I could not say 100% that the DRW made that much of difference over the the 2500HD. Yes it a much more capable TV, but comparing the 2006 2500 to any new ruck, the new truck is much more capable.

Figure out your percentage of miles towing versus non towing. My 89,000 miles on the Ford has a little over 30% towing. I figure for a daily driver, anything over 25% is good enough reason to jump to a DRW.

Mileage is going to be the same whatever the brand. Most likely 9-11 MPG's towing.

That said, when I order the next truck it will be a 450, which is only DRW. Waiting to see how the incentives go, and I have until 09/01 to order a 2017 . The 2017 Super Duty's are so popular Ford is not offering much on the incentive side.

Here in the northeast, the tolls are a back breaker. DRW's are about double.

 

[farside291]

Re: Advice requested

4.10 gears are gasoline engines. 3.73 gears are Diesel engine gears. For Chevys and GMC that is.

Not true for Ram trucks. 3.73 or 4.10 your choice. I have a 2016 Ram with the Cummins and 4.10 gears. My old Duramax you could only get 3.73 gears.

 

[JWalker]

Kevin, I know about 1% of what's out there to know about tow vehicles. But I can give you a heads up on the late-model RAM trucks.
For late-model RAMS, there are three choices of transmissions available for the Cummins diesel.
-Six speed manual "G56"
-Six speed auto "68RFE"
-Six speed auto "AISIN"

Each of these transmissions offer different tow ratings. And in certain cases, each will allow more horsepower and torque to be fed to them. Different ratings for the Cummins.

If you were looking into a late-model RAM. Check the powertrain configuration. In some cases, there could be as much as 10,000 pounds difference in tow rating. All three transmissions are capable, Just in varying degrees.

J

 

[meagle]

Last June I purchased a new GMC dually with the diesel engine. It replaced my SRW GMC diesel. After towing with the dually I would never go back to the SRW. My new dually has the 3.73 rear end and does a wonderful job towing my Landmark in all conditions. Recently, I was returning from a trip to Utah when we encountered very high winds for about 250 miles. My truck handled it beautifully. A friend of mine was following me with his SRW truck towing his Big Horn. He encountered a lot of sway and lateral movement. He was "white knuckled" the entire trip where I was comfortable and at ease. As a result of that experience he purchased his new Chevy dually last Saturday. I get anywhere from 9 to 13 MPG, but most of the time it is around 10.5 to 11.5 MPG. I can certainly say with no hesitation than I would purchase my dually again after towing with it. Good luck.

 

[OldSlowHans]

DRW without question.

Better pin-weight capacity.

Better stability, especially in cross-wind situations.

Better safety in case of rear tire failure.

 

[porthole]

Kevin, I know about 1% of what's out there to know about tow vehicles. But I can give you a heads up on the late-model RAM trucks.
For late-model RAMS, there are three choices of transmissions available for the Cummins diesel.
-Six speed manual "G56"
-Six speed auto "68RFE"
-Six speed auto "AISIN"

Each of these transmissions offer different tow ratings. And in certain cases, each will allow more horsepower and torque to be fed to them. Different ratings for the Cummins.

If you were looking into a late-model RAM. Check the powertrain configuration. In some cases, there could be as much as 10,000 pounds difference in tow rating. All three transmissions are capable, Just in varying degrees.

J

Ram should wake up and just offer the best trans as standard equipment with a workhorse diesel. GM and Ford - you only get one trans choice - the best trans for the job.

 

[danemayer]

Ram should wake up and just offer the best trans as standard equipment with a workhorse diesel. GM and Ford - you only get one trans choice - the best trans for the job.

I like the AISIN transmission, but it added $2,895 to the sticker.

 

[porthole]

I like the AISIN transmission, but it added $2,895 to the sticker.

Workhorse inline six diesel deserves a good trans, the Asin should be standard.

When Dodge first came out with a diesel, many moons ago, guess what almost killed the new cottage industry - the trans.

Pickups had an optional Mitsubishi diesel, was a big deal at the time. Initially with the 904 trans, yeah that didn't work.
Replaced with the 727 trans, which was the brute back in the day (440s', 440 six packs, Hemi's (real Hemi's) etc.
Still not learning a lesson the trans was connected with a standard gas engine flex plate (the plate that bolts to the crank and torque converter).
2000-3000 miles the diesel started cracking flexplates.

 

[recumbent615]

Good Morning all -


First off please let me thank you all for your valuable insight and opinions ( those are the same ). this weekend I pulled the trigger on a 2014 Silvarado 3500 dually wit the 3.73 rear end - flew to Nashville TN to acquire it on Saturday am and drove home. only 60K and had not been used to tow ( although it has the tow prep ). No 5th Wheel prep so I am starting with a clean slate so to speak...

Truck had 60K miles and had no accident reports - although it appears it did have some fender damage that was replaced by the dealer. it was a southern truck and does not have any undercoating or bed liner so those will be done as the first step in making this a New England Truck.

Can not wait to get a hitch and tow with it - I know this will be a game changer as far as comfort on the road is concerned.

Driving back from Nashville I got 18mpg with @75mph average

so that is a few less than the 2500 so I expect that towing will follow and I will get around 12mpg or so... where I was getting 13 or 14...

Kevin

 

[jassson007]

Nice!


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