Powermax TowMax tires
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GOTTOYS
Well-known member
They're name is Michelin XPS Rib. I got mine at Discount Tire. They weren't in stock but they got them in overnight. The size I use is 235/85/16 Load range E. My original tires were 235/80/16 Blow Masters....Don
I also made the switch to Michelin XPS Ribs, even though the Towmax tires only had 2000 miles. I found I was continually watching in my side mirrors for shredded tire and wasn't enjoying the ride. The Michelins are 19 pounds heavier than the Towmax. I don't know where the statement that STR tires have stronger sidewalls, because my old tires were like balloons on the sides. I also use a TST 507 tire monitor system. I feel much better towing with these tires.
kowAlski631
Well-known member
We had less than 5,000 miles on our tire, so we have filed a product liability claim with the manufacturer with the expectation they will refund the cost of a replacement tire as well as the cost to repair our BH.
Anyone out there who has gone this route? How did it turn out?
Anyone out there who has gone this route? How did it turn out?
TravelTiger
Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
I had good results talking to TBC, the distributor, and got first a new tire, then when more were bad, a check for the defective tires. We did not have damage. I have not heard of many having damage paid for.
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kowAlski631
Well-known member
With as many reports of blowouts as are on this forum alone, it appears to me to be a result of product defect. A defective product which causes damage to adjacent parts should fall under the same claim. We will see the response from the manufacturer on this.
GOTTOYS
Well-known member
Then if they don't weasel out of any responsibility and you're really "lucky" you will get another piece of junk tire that won't last very long. If you get a settlement..I would take the money and go buy a set of real tires...JMHO, Don
kowAlski631
Well-known member
I've got the time & the background to hopefully have a good outcome on this.
We have already had 2 Towmax tires replaced, one because a large cut appeared in a tire after, supposedly, hitting a pothole on a freeway off-ramp. I say supposedly because subsequent experience leads me to suspect that the tire was just not up to the task, and the second due to tread separation which became obvious when I noticed that one tire was a totally different shape to the others.
Now I have noticed a third tire which has tread separation (base on the fact that it has now taken on the shape of the original tire with that problem.)
Having now traveled well over 20,000 miles in the last 3 years and stayed in 100s of campgrounds I have come to the realisation that the vast majority of RVs are designed to travel from the factory to the dealer then to a local campground and then never move again which, clearly, the manufacturers understand and so purchase tires designed to travel about 3,000 mi max on average. The problem is that those of us who are true travelers suffer from this conscious decision by the manufacturer to fit the lowest cost tire available yet abrogate their responsibility on to to the tire manufacturer who is only responsible for a portion of the replacement cost of a failed tire and leaves the RV owner to pick up the pieces when one of these tires fails and causes major damage to the rig.
Now I have noticed a third tire which has tread separation (base on the fact that it has now taken on the shape of the original tire with that problem.)
Having now traveled well over 20,000 miles in the last 3 years and stayed in 100s of campgrounds I have come to the realisation that the vast majority of RVs are designed to travel from the factory to the dealer then to a local campground and then never move again which, clearly, the manufacturers understand and so purchase tires designed to travel about 3,000 mi max on average. The problem is that those of us who are true travelers suffer from this conscious decision by the manufacturer to fit the lowest cost tire available yet abrogate their responsibility on to to the tire manufacturer who is only responsible for a portion of the replacement cost of a failed tire and leaves the RV owner to pick up the pieces when one of these tires fails and causes major damage to the rig.
Last week, as we were traveling to International, via Michigan (where we are now), we had a blow out on one of our tires, which were the original tires. While the Good Sams Roadside Service man was changing the tire, I noticed a "bubble" on of the other tires. I made it to the next town where I had all four tires replaced. I wasn't going to take a chance on the other two because of all the trouble others have had. The tire dealer told me that RV companies (at least some of them) buy tires that are out-dated and are illegal for tire stores to sell but OK for the companies to use. That may be what is causing all our troubles. Anyway, I can now say I am an official member of the Heartland Sorry Tires Club!
I had a discussion this morning with TBC, the importer/distributor of the Towmax and they reject any responsibility for the problems caused by these tires. Their contention is that Heartland are responsible for selecting the tires, which they don't purchase directly from TBC but from a local dealer, and are therefore responsible for putting tires on rigs that are totally unsuitable for the use these rigs are put to.
Westwind
Well-known member
My thoughts are it's the bottom line, FW model X costs so much to make. I have a list of need parts and distributors and I go down the list substituting tire A for Tire B and save $20, light package A for package B and save $30 and the list goes on. In the end maybe they save $1,000 per trailer and each manufacturer is now got a contract to supply parts. It's the name of the game and it's not going to change unless the company puts pride in product ahead of profit. Not in this world.
We've owned 7 trailers over the years and had many blowouts (and only minimal damage thank goodness).
I've learned a few things that I'd like to pass on.
1. Trailer tires are designed for 65 MPH maximum speeds. Many people exceed this - and then there are problems with separation, overheating and blowouts.
2. I purchased an infrared thermometer and started watching tire temps. I was VERY surprised to find on an older unit with Carlisle tires that they were running at 150-160 deg F at 65 MPH and 65 PSI. Not surprisingly, these tires failed within a few hundred miles of my purchasing the unit. I replaced them with Maxxis which were E rated, and new wheels (the Carlisle's were C) and temps never got over 120 deg in the sun. I never had problems with these - not because of the brand I believe, but because the previous tires were marginal for the trailer.
The trailer weighed 10K loaded for travel, and the original tires were at max ratings around 8300#. It was then I realized that the factory had spec'd the tires for the load they would see when towing (2000# on the tongue) meaning that the tires would see around 8000# when towing.
So, the tires were regularly overloaded whenever the trailer was off the truck. Plus the marginal ratings meant I was just asking for trouble (and got it).
3. Tires often endure unseen damage when we hit curbs and potholes (what you never do that? <grin>). No matter how careful I am making turns in tight places, it often seems that I can't avoid going over the curb from time to time. It's easy to bruise a sidewall when tires are loaded close to their maximum, especially if struck at speed. You may have a sudden bulge appear, or the tire delaminates and fails catastrophically.
4. Tires can be damaged when we store our rigs on damp ground (we always store our rigs on dry gravel, cement or asphalt, right?). The moisture from the dirt can be absorbed into the rubber causing weakness that can result in sudden blowouts.
5. A tire that fails on a trailer that is driven for a time after the failure can cause premature failure of some of the other tires (usually the same side) since the remaining tire(s) face overloads & overheating that leads to sudden failures. Many tire manufacturers recommend replacing both tires on the side where one was lost at speed.
6. We often don't balance trailer tires - but it's good insurance - especially for tires loaded near maximums.
People have more problems with trailer tires since they are used so differently than the tires on our vehicles. They are more likely to be damaged since they are run more closely to their maximums. They are often underinflated and run at excessive speeds. We store them for long periods of time in less than ideal conditions. When one is damaged or goes flat on our trailers on the highway - we often don't notice right away - causing more damage to our trailers and the other tires.
Most of us can sense a low tire on our tow vehicles right away and would stop and check to see what the problem was.
A while ago I read that many imported tires were suffering early failures because of the way they were shipped and stored. The tires are compressed almost flat in a pile and secured with webbing. I've seen this webbing severely compressing the sidewalls on piles of compressed tires that may be 8-10 deep but only 24-30" high. If these tires are left this way for a year or two in a warehouse, they are often damaged - damage which doesn't show up until a customer puts a few miles on their new campers. I believe that most wholesalers know about these storage issues now and avoid them.
I've had good luck when:
- I spec'd tires that easily supported the maximum loads from my trailers (not exceeding 80% or so of their rated load when seeing the total weight of the trailer not mounted to the tow vehicle). You may have to go up ratings and sizes to reach that kind of safety margin - hence the many reports of people going up in load ranges and having to also replace wheels to those which matched the higher pressures.
- I kept an eye on pressures and temperatures
- I stayed at 65 MPH or less on the highway
- I checked tires that I'd bruised on potholes and curbs
We haven't had a blowout in the last few years (knock on wood) and I suspect that it's because we adhere to the above cautions as much as possible.
Oh BTW, we've owned 2 - 3 axle toy haulers with Tow Max tires and haven't had issues with them yet. It helps that the tires will support 21,120# all total and the trailers never weighed over 17,000# - 3000# on the pin = 14,000# under tow. That equals about 66% load when towed and 80% load when detached or stored - a decent margin I believe.
Hope our experiences can help others with their tire woes,...
I've learned a few things that I'd like to pass on.
1. Trailer tires are designed for 65 MPH maximum speeds. Many people exceed this - and then there are problems with separation, overheating and blowouts.
2. I purchased an infrared thermometer and started watching tire temps. I was VERY surprised to find on an older unit with Carlisle tires that they were running at 150-160 deg F at 65 MPH and 65 PSI. Not surprisingly, these tires failed within a few hundred miles of my purchasing the unit. I replaced them with Maxxis which were E rated, and new wheels (the Carlisle's were C) and temps never got over 120 deg in the sun. I never had problems with these - not because of the brand I believe, but because the previous tires were marginal for the trailer.
The trailer weighed 10K loaded for travel, and the original tires were at max ratings around 8300#. It was then I realized that the factory had spec'd the tires for the load they would see when towing (2000# on the tongue) meaning that the tires would see around 8000# when towing.
So, the tires were regularly overloaded whenever the trailer was off the truck. Plus the marginal ratings meant I was just asking for trouble (and got it).
3. Tires often endure unseen damage when we hit curbs and potholes (what you never do that? <grin>). No matter how careful I am making turns in tight places, it often seems that I can't avoid going over the curb from time to time. It's easy to bruise a sidewall when tires are loaded close to their maximum, especially if struck at speed. You may have a sudden bulge appear, or the tire delaminates and fails catastrophically.
4. Tires can be damaged when we store our rigs on damp ground (we always store our rigs on dry gravel, cement or asphalt, right?). The moisture from the dirt can be absorbed into the rubber causing weakness that can result in sudden blowouts.
5. A tire that fails on a trailer that is driven for a time after the failure can cause premature failure of some of the other tires (usually the same side) since the remaining tire(s) face overloads & overheating that leads to sudden failures. Many tire manufacturers recommend replacing both tires on the side where one was lost at speed.
6. We often don't balance trailer tires - but it's good insurance - especially for tires loaded near maximums.
People have more problems with trailer tires since they are used so differently than the tires on our vehicles. They are more likely to be damaged since they are run more closely to their maximums. They are often underinflated and run at excessive speeds. We store them for long periods of time in less than ideal conditions. When one is damaged or goes flat on our trailers on the highway - we often don't notice right away - causing more damage to our trailers and the other tires.
Most of us can sense a low tire on our tow vehicles right away and would stop and check to see what the problem was.
A while ago I read that many imported tires were suffering early failures because of the way they were shipped and stored. The tires are compressed almost flat in a pile and secured with webbing. I've seen this webbing severely compressing the sidewalls on piles of compressed tires that may be 8-10 deep but only 24-30" high. If these tires are left this way for a year or two in a warehouse, they are often damaged - damage which doesn't show up until a customer puts a few miles on their new campers. I believe that most wholesalers know about these storage issues now and avoid them.
I've had good luck when:
- I spec'd tires that easily supported the maximum loads from my trailers (not exceeding 80% or so of their rated load when seeing the total weight of the trailer not mounted to the tow vehicle). You may have to go up ratings and sizes to reach that kind of safety margin - hence the many reports of people going up in load ranges and having to also replace wheels to those which matched the higher pressures.
- I kept an eye on pressures and temperatures
- I stayed at 65 MPH or less on the highway
- I checked tires that I'd bruised on potholes and curbs
We haven't had a blowout in the last few years (knock on wood) and I suspect that it's because we adhere to the above cautions as much as possible.
Oh BTW, we've owned 2 - 3 axle toy haulers with Tow Max tires and haven't had issues with them yet. It helps that the tires will support 21,120# all total and the trailers never weighed over 17,000# - 3000# on the pin = 14,000# under tow. That equals about 66% load when towed and 80% load when detached or stored - a decent margin I believe.
Hope our experiences can help others with their tire woes,...
Thanks for the rational thoughts, Wrenched. Although I have done nowhere near as much trailering as you, my limited experience matches yours. I have over 5,000 miles on a set of Towmax tires and I'm not losing any sleep.
- I don't have a TPMS, but I make sure I'm at 60-62 PSI cold before each departure.
- I check the tire temperature with my hand at each stop. I don't need a temperature gauge to tell me that my tires are only running 10 degrees or so above ambient. (If they were 150-160 like your one set, I wouldn't go a mile further).
- I never go over 65 MPH.
- And the clincher: I'm fortunate enough to have four D tires, good for 10,000+ lbs., on a TT with a GVWR of 8,600 lbs. and on the road at maybe 7,200 lbs. So yes, Heartland does put adequate tires on their TT's as much as practicable.
I understand my case can't economically be extended to the larger TT's and 5vers. And that's where as owners we have an obligation to (a) accept an increased risk knowing that the tires are very near their limit, (b) lower the risk by managing our driving and towing habits, or (c) take the economics into our own hands by spending the additional money for more robust tires.
- I don't have a TPMS, but I make sure I'm at 60-62 PSI cold before each departure.
- I check the tire temperature with my hand at each stop. I don't need a temperature gauge to tell me that my tires are only running 10 degrees or so above ambient. (If they were 150-160 like your one set, I wouldn't go a mile further).
- I never go over 65 MPH.
- And the clincher: I'm fortunate enough to have four D tires, good for 10,000+ lbs., on a TT with a GVWR of 8,600 lbs. and on the road at maybe 7,200 lbs. So yes, Heartland does put adequate tires on their TT's as much as practicable.
I understand my case can't economically be extended to the larger TT's and 5vers. And that's where as owners we have an obligation to (a) accept an increased risk knowing that the tires are very near their limit, (b) lower the risk by managing our driving and towing habits, or (c) take the economics into our own hands by spending the additional money for more robust tires.
kowAlski631
Well-known member
We have a tire monitor functioning & also inspect our tires at each stop; we do not exceed 65mph ever; we are very cognizant of road hazards & their possible impact on our tires as we must assume all responsible owners are. Nevertheless we had a blow out with under 5k on our rig.
TravelTiger
Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
Ok pulled the plug today and replaced all my Towmax with Firestone Transforce HT LT tires. As I intimated earlier, the problem may not be as much poor quality of tires but poor selection of tires by Heartland. They choose tires that will last from the factory to the first campground because that is where a large majority of their rigs end up so why spend more money on a tire that will last thousands of miles of travelling if it is just going to sit for the rest of its life in a local campground.
