SOLVED: Missing Atmospheric Vacuum Breaker for Black Tank Flusher

[Greengas]

So, now that I am a Heartland Owner I can post my first "problem" and I know, I should have caught this during the PDI. I was getting ready to shut down the coach after our first night in it. I turn on the water to the black flush and I can hear water running and within seconds I see water coming out from under the basement wall. So I shut off the water, remove the portion of the wall behind the UDC, and tighten the fitting, sounds good, right? Wrong. I turn on the black flush again and again water comes rushing out. This time, since the wall is gone, I can see the water coming down from where the pipes go up behind the shower wall. So, water off again, take off the panel behind the shower and here is what is see:



Notice that blue pipe sticking up with nothing on it? Well, that is where the black tank flush is flowing out of. Now I know that the black tank flush is supposed to go to an anti siphon valve so my guess is, at this point, that is was just not put on. But then, was it supposed to go from a blue (cold water) pipe, into the anti siphon valve, and then down into a red (hot water) pipe? Interesting. So, I get a flash light and look down inside the wall and see...



If you look closely you can see what looks like the anti siphon valve at the bottom. So, maybe, they did put it on and just did not put it on tight so that when I ran it it popped off (by the way, both my water lines are after my pressure regulator so I know the max pressure was only 50 psi). Or maybe, that is not the anti siphon valve and they just forgot to put on in. Either way, I now have water damage to the basement wall and my bedroom carpet got wet, and the wall board got wet.

So, now that I can "ask the factory" I am going to do just that and see what they say. I have to be in my coach again this Saturday for one night and then I am going to the Colorado Rally in September. I'm hoping that the dealer will be able to get this in quick and get it done along with fixing the normal list of "other" new coach issues.

Now, all this aside, WE LOVE OUR LANDMARK! Oh, My, Gosh, the basement it at least 3 times the size of my previous coach, leveling took approx 1.5 minutes and I did not have to bend over or stoop down once, the AC's kept the coach cool, the awnings are actually functional, I could go on and on.

So if anyone has any thoughts on my Black Tank Flush issue, I'd really appreciate it. If it is an easy fix (like attach the Anti Siphon Valve to the blue and red pipe) then I might just do it my self.

 

[Greengas]

ATF: Landmark - Black Tank Flush

I tried to use my black tank flush for the first time today. What I got was a big flood, both in my basement and in my bedroom. I ended up tanking off the basement wall behind the UDC and found that when I turned on the flush, water flowed down from behind the shower. I took off the panel behind the shower and found both a blue and red pex pipe stick up and connected to nothing. The water was flowing out of the blue pipe. I looked down into the wall and saw what looks like the Anti Siphon value at the bottom. So now, I have a one day old coach with water damage to the basement wall, the wall behind the shower, and a wet bedroom carpet (and I did shut down the water as fast as I could). Please let me know if the problem is the missing Anti Siphon valve and if it is supposed to go on the blue pipe and then connect down to the red pipe. I am including two photos. One of the two open pipes and the other looking down inside the wall. Also, please let me know if the Camping World in Golden Colorado is an authorized repair facility for my Landmark and also what other "independent" repair facilities are in the Denver area.

 

[jbeletti]

Re: ATF: Landmark - Black Tank Flush

Wow - that's awful. Very sorry to hear this. I have reported this to the plant so they will know about this "production miss" right away. Please call Customer Service in the morning at 877-262-8032 to ask your question about service at Camping World.

The Atmospheric Vacuum Breaker is a common part and most RV stores and service centers will have them.

 

[Greengas]

Re: ATF: Landmark - Black Tank Flush

Wow - that's awful. Very sorry to hear this. I have reported this to the plant so they will know about this "production miss" right away. Please call Customer Service in the morning at 877-262-8032 to ask your question about service at Camping World.

The Atmospheric Vacuum Breaker is a common part and most RV stores and service centers will have them.

Jim

Thanks, as always for the quick reply. I'll try to call in the morning. Bummer!

 

[brianharrison]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Some just connect the two lines and forget the anti-siphon. Add a check valve on the inlet and that prevents water backflow into the source line or siphoning black water out of the waste tank if it is full.

Brian.

 

[kakampers]

Re: ATF: Landmark - Black Tank Flush

OMG!! So sorry this had to happen to someone SOOO excited about getting their new rig...not minimize the issue, but who did the PDI...apparently they didn't bother to check plumbing...this is one area that should always be checked for loose connections, etc. Had they done that they would have caught this before you had a flood...Good Luck.

I can tell you that it will dry out any be OK....problems usually only arise with continual saturation.

 

[danemayer]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Ronn,

If you haven't already done so, get a large high-velocity fan to dry out the areas that got wet. As long as you don't let the damp areas stay damp, I don't think you'll have any water damage.

Regardless of whether you install the anti-siphon valve or bypass it, the pex lines require a specialized pex tool and pex fittings. The tool is not hard to use - but it'll probably cost you $50 at Home Depot. It can be difficult to use in a confined space so you might want to leave it to the dealer.

Some people use Sharkbite push-on fittings, but I've never wanted to trust push-ons.

Regardless of who does the work, you might want to spend $22 on a water alarm to put under this area in the basement to warn you of any dripping from this area after the repair.

Also, take a look at the position of the Power Converter and transfer switch (if you have generator prep). If they got wet, you'll want to make sure they're dry now and are operating correctly. Hopefully the water didn't come down on top of either of them.

 

[Greengas]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Ronn,

If you haven't already done so, get a large high-velocity fan to dry out the areas that got wet. As long as you don't let the damp areas stay damp, I don't think you'll have any water damage.

Regardless of whether you install the anti-siphon valve or bypass it, the pex lines require a specialized pex tool and pex fittings. The tool is not hard to use - but it'll probably cost you $50 at Home Depot. It can be difficult to use in a confined space so you might want to leave it to the dealer.



Some people use Sharkbite push-on fittings, but I've never wanted to trust push-ons.

Regardless of who does the work, you might want to spend $22 on a water alarm to put under this area in the basement to warn you of any dripping from this area after the repair.

Also, take a look at the position of the Power Converter and transfer switch (if you have generator prep). If they got wet, you'll want to make sure they're dry now and are operating correctly. Hopefully the water didn't come down on top of either of them.

Dan and Brian

Thanks for the speedy reply. Do either of you, or anyone else for that matter, think that the red pex pipe is the right one to connect the blue pex pipe to? I would have thought that it would have been blue also since it is cold water. If it is, I will probably just have the dealer provide me with a new anti siphon valve and install it. I have used the gator bites before in my house and they work fine. I agree that getting the pex tool would be better in the long run but... Either way, since the two pipes are not that close to each other and both stop at the same height, if I do the repair I will have to buy a length of pex for the connection.

I would love to just drop it off at the dealer but I don't have the time and won't have the time until after the Colorado Rally in late September and I need to be using my black tank flush As for the carpet, it is drying quickly (Colorado = very low humidity).

 

[dbbls59]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Welcome to the Heartland owners leak club. I suggest you go ahead and get the pex tools, you will be needing them if your unit is like mine, and many others I have met. My basement has been flooded twice. Had 1/2 inch of water in the middle of it two times. I had many leaks behind the UDC.

 

[TedS]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Get a Flush King if you want to flush the tank in the meantime.

I will be at the CO rally. If you want to practice with a PEX tool, I will bring mine.

 

[wdk450]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Greengas:
Read this document from the manufacturer of the Atmospheric Breaker Valve, B&B Molders: http://www.bandbmolders.com/files/TankFlusherInstructions2.pdf Note item #7 - That item seems to say to me that the "venting" of water from the valve is a "normal" function. Not a "normal" function I want in my RV. I replaced the valve (after it blew off) with a brass check valve.

 

[Greengas]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Get a Flush King if you want to flush the tank in the meantime.

I will be at the CO rally. If you want to practice with a PEX tool, I will bring mine.

Ted

Actually I got, not the flush king but something that does the same and I used it, along with dumping my two grey tanks into the black, to clean out the black tank. And if I don't have the problem solved by the rally, I will take you up on your pex training offer. What part of Colorado are you in?

 

[danemayer]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Ronn,

I wouldn't take a bet on which line is which. But I'd check the backside of the UDC to see which color pex line is on the backside of the flush fitting. You should be able to follow that line and figure out which is which.

If water was coming out of the Blue pex, that'd be the one coming from the UDC. If you're no longer sure, maybe you could put a 90 degree fitting and a short extension on the lines so water flows into the shower, and run water through the flush connection to verify which way the water is flowing. The line that's not gushing water goes to the black tank.

 

[priorguy]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Am I wrong in thinking the black water flush should go directly to the black tank and nowhere else? My North Trail has a black tank flush connection separate from the city connection and the fresh water fill. Or is it a built in system on the Landmark that you just "turn on" when necessary without hooking up a separate hose. I know a lot of stuff gets better when you step up in price enough. Just out of my reach for the time being. Cheers on the new Landmark.

 

[danemayer]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Am I wrong in thinking the black water flush should go directly to the black tank and nowhere else? My North Trail has a black tank flush connection separate from the city connection and the fresh water fill. Or is it a built in system on the Landmark that you just "turn on" when necessary without hooking up a separate hose. I know a lot of stuff gets better when you step up in price enough. Just out of my reach for the time being. Cheers on the new Landmark.

Hi priorguy,

It's a separate connection on the Landmark as well as on the North Trail. The issue is that you don't want to have contaminated water from your black tank work it's way back through the flush line where it could contaminate the hose and water supply. To prevent that, an anti-siphon valve is in the middle of the black flush line. To work properly, it has to be placed at a particular height in the coach. On the Landmark, it ends up behind the shower wall.

 

[Greengas]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Ronn,

I wouldn't take a bet on which line is which. But I'd check the backside of the UDC to see which color pex line is on the backside of the flush fitting. You should be able to follow that line and figure out which is which.

If water was coming out of the Blue pex, that'd be the one coming from the UDC. If you're no longer sure, maybe you could put a 90 degree fitting and a short extension on the lines so water flows into the shower, and run water through the flush connection to verify which way the water is flowing. The line that's not gushing water goes to the black tank.

There is no question which pex pipe the water is coming out of. But if you look at the picture, that is quite a gap between the two pipes. I just want to make sure that the red one is the one that goes to the black tank. I would have thought that since it was a cold water line both of the lines would have been blue. But, who knows. They might have been short of blue pex and just shoved in some red. I will give the factory a call in the morning and then see what's up. I can do a quick fix to at least be able to use the system until I can get it into the dealer, or an independent repair facility here in Denver. I will also add a one way valve at the back of the udc (there is not one there now).

My DW wants to know when this RVing gets easy and relaxing

 

[TedS]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Greengas, I'm near Durango.

 

[Greengas]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Greengas, I'm near Durango.

Oh well, that is a bit far to just "stop by". We were out that way back in June. Wonderful part of a great state!

 

[danemayer]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Come on up to Tiger Run in Breckenridge. I've got tools with me.

 

[Greengas]

Re: I don't think it's supposed to be this way

Come on up to Tiger Run in Breckenridge. I've got tools with me.

a
i would love to. But I still have to work :-(. How long are you going to be there for?