Temp in the teens overnight, kitchen hw froze

[aquiring signal]

lows near zero and all is well except propane useage

Single digit temps this morning, but all is well. Water is operational everywhere, though whenever it's below freezing outside, we trickle the cold water in the kitchen. We're cozy inside, but we sure are using plenty of propane. This has been our coldest week yet with the Bighorn; it only went 5 days on a 100lbs bottle. I thought that was terrible, but RV park manager told my wife some are using the 100lbs bottle in three days.

 

[sjrellis]

We were going through 100# tanks about every 5 days also. Since we are stationary for several months, we had the local gas company bring a 100 gallon tank (the 100# tanks are about 23 gallons IIRC). We had it refilled this week after using it for 20 days. I haven't figured out the math, but it is better not having to change bottles every 5 days.

 

[aquiring signal]

We were going through 100# tanks about every 5 days also. Since we are stationary for several months, we had the local gas company bring a 100 gallon tank (the 100# tanks are about 23 gallons IIRC). We had it refilled this week after using it for 20 days. I haven't figured out the math, but it is better not having to change bottles every 5 days.

We were in Connecticut last winter (in a different trailer) and had a big 100 gallon tank on automatic delivery by the local propane company. It was convenient, but this park in Kansas sells propane and only offers the 100lbs bottles. We want to buy from them, but maybe I should call local propane companies to see if I can get a big tank and the auto delivery.

 

[rjhewitt]

Rick,
I have pdf files of the plumbing schematics. They don't show exact routing, but may help you. Reply to the email I sent you & I'll send them to you.
Jon

Hi,

We've been following your thread because we too have a freezing problem in our 08 3670. We full time it for my husband's job. We just pulled into Berwick, PA and it's getting mighty cold up here. We have the water heat taped and wrapped. Last night was 18 and tonight is supposed to be in the single digits. Our hot and cold water lines are frozen in our kitchen. Could you please email those 3670 plumbing schematics to us as well? rjhewitt@renlearn.com

Also, this is our first winter in a Big Horn. What else can you recommend? We have a very short manual and it says nothing about using the tank heater (doesn't even mention it), or any recommendations regarding camping in the winter. We know there is a winter package on our unit, but what does that really mean? When winter camping do we connect a hose to the sewer? Do we wait until the tanks are full and then just open the valves or leave the valves open? Someone suggested we create a more permanent sewer line with PVC and a heat tape.

We will be here for at least 4 weeks. The days are in the high 30s and at night it is in the teens.

One more unrelated issue- we have been unsuccessful attempting to use our tv antennae. Are we missing something? It's like it isn't even connected to the television.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thank you for sending the 3670 plumbing schematics!

Mike and Robyn

 

[jpmorgan37]

Mike;

Put a lamp with a flood light at your low point drain lines. This is probably the source of the kitchen water freezing. You can also put a lamp in the basement. It doesn't take much to keep the temperature above freezing.You need to run the furnace some to maintain heat to the underbelly. (I use electric heaters to supplement, but when the temp drops into the mid 20's and lower, the furnace is run too) I would keep the valve closed on the black water tank until it is full before I dumped it and then back flush and close the valve again (be sure to put in some tank treatment) I would keep the valves open on the gray water tanks since most of the water that comes out of the gray tank is warm (showers, dish washing etc.) I don't recommend drizzling water overnight because it will freeze in your drain line unless it is insulated and heat taped. Then you have a 3 inch solid chunk of ice in you sewer hose if you drizzle water.

Hope this helps,

John

 

[1duffer101]

rjhewitt

Did you push in (turn on) the amp button in the bedroom at the tv port. This connects the antenna to the cable line. When using cable turn the amp off.

 

[linuxkidd]

With regard to leaving the tank valves open... If you are still using flex sewer lines... I would strongly suggest not leaving the valves open. I did this and had a big long snaking sewer line ICE cube. I've since switched to ABS Plastic for my sewer line and now can leave the grey tanks open in cold weather. The constant angle of the ABS Plastic pipe (I have about a 1/2 bubble of down angle when I check it with a level ) and insulation factor that the ABS piping brings makes this a much better setup. ABS Plastic pipe is usually black in color and if you look at the end of the pipe, you'll see that it's porous between the inner and outer walls of the pipe. This porous area acts as insulation. I've not needed to heat wrap or insulate the pipe further to prevent issues.

Now, one word of warning... My weather stays cold for a few days at a time ( mid to low 20's for the high ), but then warms up above freezing for a day or two. I may not be having long enough cold spells to cause a freeze of the new pipe. Your mileage may vary.


The kitchen water freeze up is almost definitely the low point drains. An instant fix is to hit them with a hair dryer or heat gun up close to the belly skin. This will thaw out the T valves and free up your kitchen water. Heat tape or a lamp under the Low point drains will help prevent future freeze ups. If you go with the lamp, I'd recommend some sort of walls around the area to prevent the light keep'n your neighbors awake and to keep the heat trapped from the wind.

LK

 

[rjhewitt]

Hey, thanks for getting back to us so quick. Temps dropping fast out here. Got to run now to apply what I've learned from you all!

Mike and Robyn

 

[linuxkidd]

no problem..

Also check out this article on HOOT.

It's a work in progress.
LK

 

[wholymoses]

bill and linda 3670RL

Read about your freezing problem. I then checked my low point drains. Their were lines next to frame and the crossmember had two 1/2 inch gaps where it met the frame. I put 2 inch foam insulation cut to size inside the frame rail both in the upper and lower frame and also under the lines above next to the steps. The insulation blanket was folded in the middle and did not reach the frame air must have gotten in and moved it, I fixed the blanket and cut the opening around the drain lines so that they fit tighter. Going to work up north in couple weeks give it a try. Got the unit this spring 2008 stayed in it all summer while working, love it.

 

[Kashman]

Thermo Cube

I just wanted to throw this idea out there for those who are considering putting some type of heater in the basement plumbing area. It's called a "Thermo cube" and is sold in pilot shops. It's a plug the automatically comes on at a pre-determined temp and then shuts off at a pre-determined temp. I have included a link and a pic to one source at Sporty's Pilot shop. There 2 cubes available 20-30 degree (on/off) and 35-45 degree. Both are the same price $13.95.

http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&CATID=177&Product_ID=5392&count=39&Pcount=44

 

[jhflying]

The Big Horn dealer mentioned heated holding tanks. Do they have heating pads, or are they simply heated from the furnace ducts?

This is our first winter and we use it every few weeks, so winterizing it is not convenient. When we're gone, I'd like to keep the thermostat around 45 deg, but will that be warm enough?

Thanks,
John

 

[jbeletti]

John,

The underbelly is sealed, insulated and heated via a single duct from the furnace.

We do offer tank heating pads as an option on some of our products. They stick onto the bottoms of the tank and are AC powered.

Jim

 

[alaska dodge]

Does anyone have the plumbing diagram for the bighorn 3370? My kitchen what if freezing up as well

Bill

 

[Tankie]

Bill, in our 3670 the kitchen lines split off from the washer and dryer and run down the frame to the kitchen (bad place for water lines steel gets real cold). I tried to wrap them but there is no room between the frame so I pulled them out and re-routed them. I also spliced into the heater duct that runs to the back vent, used a tee and ran a line to put heat under kitchen. I blocked off end (execpt a small hole) and cut small holes in top of duct (one hose is not good enough to heat whole underbelly) . Now underbelly under kichen stays 50 plus and pipes are doing well.

 

[alaska dodge]

Tankie,
Thanks for the reply, did you have to remove the entire underbelly? It has been -11F for the highs here

 

[Tankie]

alaska dodge, no I did not, the water lines and heater duct are just inside the frame, you can reach them both fairly easy. I also put R-21 insulation in the underbelly, the astro foil is good for mid 20's but we were in low teens for highs. Even after I moved water lines it still froze hot water line. I think the insulation cut down on air movement. In my option you need to get heat in the lower end of the underbelly if you are going to be in any temps below mid 20's. I put a thermometer w/ 12ft sensor cord through kitchen cabinet so I could monitor temp under kitchen. Good luck and stay warm. Tankie

 

[ourtinhouse]

The hot water froze up in the kitchen last April in Rawlins Wy. Central heat running; this morning hot and cold qater frozen in the kitchen in Tulsa Okla. thougth these were foru seasn down to zero in their test. In Rawlings it was cold but here it is in the upper teen eary this morning. Insulation missing or what?

 

[cookie]

I don't know if this will help, but on your 2008 Bighorn you have the low point drains. I have heard that sometimes these can freeze and block the waterflow. You could try to insulate those drains. Also some people have removed them for just that reason.

Peace
Dave

 

[lwmcguir]

Re: Thermo Cube

I just wanted to throw this idea out there for those who are considering putting some type of heater in the basement plumbing area. It's called a "Thermo cube" and is sold in pilot shops. It's a plug the automatically comes on at a pre-determined temp and then shuts off at a pre-determined temp. I have included a link and a pic to one source at Sporty's Pilot shop. There 2 cubes available 20-30 degree (on/off) and 35-45 degree. Both are the same price $13.95.

http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&CATID=177&Product_ID=5392&count=39&Pcount=44

The thermostatic plugs are available in farm supply stores as well. We have used them for years on our diesel tractors/trucks to keep the electric heaters from running when they aren't needed. Work very well.