Tire/Axle Issue in my 2012 NT 28BRS

[Tfitz]

After reading this I am a little worried. I have a 2012 28brs that at the end of last season I brought to the dealer to have the axles flipped, it was just too low to get in and out of my driveway as well as certain gas statons etc.... When I went to pick up the trailer to take to storage the dealer told me I needed new tires and showed me how the inside had wore (they looked just like the ones in the pictures on this thread). He indicated that the wear was because they were cheap bias plys and that a good set of radials were recomended (not really what you want to here from someone that sold you the trailer).

I am now preparing to get the trailer out of storage to have new tires put on and every tire dealer I have been to for quotes that I have told about the existing tire wear says I should also have an alignment done. I would have thought that if the dealer flipped the axles that they would have had an alignment done if it were important to the safety of the trailer. The reason I had the dealer do the work is that they are an authorized North Trail dealer. So I called to confirm if an alignment was done and the answer was "no just bring it over to Fleet Brake and they will align it it shouldn't cost much" I paid $600 to have the axles flipped and upon calling Fleet Brake found out it will cost me another $345? This thread leads me to beleive that my axles may be bent I can only hope that if the axles were bent the dealer would have said something when flipping them but then again I thought they would have aligned the axles???.

Anyways I am removing the rims tonight to take in for new rubber tomorrow and will inspect the axles at this time because there is no scents going to the alignment I booked if they are bent. Maybe I will be calling lippert too??? Fingers crossed.

 

[TeJay]

Re: Tire and axle failure in 2011 BRS28 - HELP!!!!!!!!!

Yes, the dealer should have checked the axles and or had it aligned as necessary. That should have been part of the cost of flipping the axles. Secondly I don't believe that a TT alignment should cost $345. There is no caster to set only camber if the axle is bent and check to determine that the axles were set at right angles to the frame. When the axles were flipped the right angle position of the axles had to be part of the flipping unless the new position was determined by bolt location and couldn't be changed. If the rubber wore off prematurely from the first tires something was wrong. It was not because they were bias ply tires. Bias ply tires should not be used on any TT but that was not the reason they wore. A good set of radials on a bent axle will wear as well.
Best of luck
TeJay

 

[Tfitz]

Re: Tire and axle failure in 2011 BRS28 - HELP!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the info TeJay I will try to negotiate with the alignment shop. Can you tell me how to check if my axles are bent, as it is my understanding that a slight bow is normal. Am i wrong if not how do you know the axles is bent if there is already a bow in it?

 

[TeJay]

Re: Tire and axle failure in 2011 BRS28 - HELP!!!!!!!!!

If the bend is significant you may be able to see it. Many have placed a long straight edge along the top or bottom of the axle and determine at least differences. To actually determine how much is difficult because differences of 1/8" or 1/4" of an inch are enough to cause tire wear but very difficult to see if at all. That will require an alignment machine. Most decent alignment shops may only charge you a base price to set-up and measure to determine any problems. They will only charge you to fix something. With TT's there are no shims, or cams to adjust alignment angles. If the axle is bent it can be fixed but has to be bent using hydraulic jacks and chains. That would require an alignment tech that knew his stuff. I'd ask before you commit to an alignment to talk to the alignment technician. Ask him/her to give you an idea how they would fix a bent axle. If they work on TT's they should have a tech that can bend the axles. If they don't know how to bend them then that shop can't fix a bent axle. My concern and I'm sure yours is what caused the axle to bend in the first place. If you are confident that you did not overload or hit a curb then the axles were under rated for that TT. We bought a TT that was rate for 7,000# and had two axles rates at 3,000# for a total of 6,000#. It was only 1,000# under rated. I complained and they sent 2- 3,500# axles. I feel better now.
Best of luck with your TT. Feel free to ask anything. I'd be more than happy to offer any suggestions that I can. It's to bad these TT manufacturers build these TT's on the edge and cheap. The frames are flimsy, the tires are the least they need to get by and the axles are not the best. I have had experience with Lippert and Dexter. The Dexter Tor-Flex axles are far superior to the Lippert. They also have self-adjusting brakes on the Dexters.

TeJay

TeJay

 

[Tfitz]

Re: Tire and axle failure in 2011 BRS28 - HELP!!!!!!!!!

Thanks again for the info. I am comfortable with the alignment shop as they have been recommended by 4 tire shops, the dealer and a trailer builder. When I got out to my trailer tonight I was shocked. I am not even sure I could have towed it to the tire shop as the sidewalls were so badly cracked so it is sitting on jack stands and I will bring the rims in for new rubber tomorrow. Axles looked fine to me so we will let the alignment shop decide when I bring it in. Still need to see if I can negotiate a lower price.

 

[TeJay]

Re: Tire and axle failure in 2011 BRS28 - HELP!!!!!!!!!

Tfitz,
If the sidewalls are cracked and the unit is only 2 years old there's a problem. I don't know if the TT was new to you but there may have been a tire swap and somebody stuck an older set of tires on that unit just to get rid of them. I can't believe tires 2-3 years old would be cracked. Most tires won't show sidewall cracks until 5 + years or better. When you take the tires in have them check the date of manufacturer. There's a date code on every tire. Also since the tires were bias ply and not radial that is even more suspect and maybe they have been switched. Bias ply are still used on utility trailers a lot and that's about the only place. I really don't know why because they are junk. However old traditions die hard. Let us know what you find out.

TeJay

 

[TravelTiger]

Re: Tire and axle failure in 2011 BRS28 - HELP!!!!!!!!!

If they are Duro brand, I recall they had a history of premature cracking. We replaced ours on our NT in less than 2 years due to cracking.

You might call Tredit, the tire supplier for HL, to see if you can get some kind of compensation.




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[Tfitz]

Re: Tire and axle failure in 2011 BRS28 - HELP!!!!!!!!!

Hi TeJay,
I had the trailer to the alignment shop and the camber is out -1.5 degree and the tech said that he coud put it back but that it would certainly fall again. He also noted that the two 3500lbs axles were light for a trailer with a GVW of 6900lbs. I am lost with this lingo and was hoping you might educate me just a little. when i bought the trailer i understood they said it was 5180lbs dry with a hitch weight of 482lbs and GVWR of 6900lbs. How does a 36 gal fresh water tank and food and clothing weigh into all these numbers pardon the pun? The way the alignment shop explained it was the trailer itself put the axles almos at the max, but if that is true how is Heartland able to produce a product that in my mind is dangerous there must be some other engineering math??? Thank you sooo much so far for your input i really appreciate it.

 

[TeJay]

Re: Tire and axle failure in 2011 BRS28 - HELP!!!!!!!!!

Tfitz,
Lets round the numbers to make it easier. Your TT dry weight of 5,000. Hitch weight of 500 lbs. and a GVW (maximum) weight of 7,000lbs. Your two axles gave you a maximum weight of 7,000 LBS. So you could load approximately 2,000 lbs of cargo. That would keep you at or near the maximum for your TT. Some of these numbers are just a guess for you because you will not know how much weight you load onto each axle or the max unless you have the TT weighed. Those weights will vary depending on how you load the TT as well. Here's something else that they did not tell you. The TT industry says that if you have a hitch weight of 500 LBS that weight is being carried by your TV so it does not count as far as the actual weight of the TT. I think that is part of how they stretch the numbers to appear that they are not building these units on the edge.

I don't know why the tech said that it would probably bend again. Our TT was also rated at 7,000 lbs and it had two 3,000 axles on it. I found out and called the company and they sent 2-3,500 lb axles. I considered myself lucky. First of all I'd ask the tech why he thinks they would bend again. If he bends it cold I believe they would stay. I just thought of this. I would consider adding a piece of say square tubing (1"X2" or 2"X2") the entire length of each axle using U-bolts to give you a little more strength. That shouldn't cost you more than $100-150 bucks. Are you the original owner??? If not maybe the first guy overloaded it and that's why it was bent.

To protect yourself I'd load it then have it weighed and keep the scale receipt in case you need the information. In addition. We never traveled with a full tank of fresh water. We always stopped at campgrounds that had full hook-ups. If we dry camped then we would put more in but probably not full. You're TT rated as it is with 7,000 LBS of axles is spot on for the TT industry. That's just how they do it. Check with the alignment tech and ask him why he thinks it will bend again. Let me know what he says. Since he made the statement about not having enough axle weight leads me to believe that he is not familiar with TT's, because most all of them are built on the edge. After he tells you the reason suggest adding some metal to reinforce the axles some. You don't have to add enough metal to add another 1,000 lbs of cargo just enough to reinforce the tubes that you have to gain some extra margin of insurance. If you can work a wrench I'd think you could add some square tubing and about 4 U-Bolts. Just get U-bolts as wide as your axle tubes and some 1" X 2" square tubing and get them as close to the brake backing plates as you can. It won't matter if they are on top or bottom. Just make sure that the suspension can still work up and down. If there is some space between the tubing and the axle because the axle has a slight bend to it just put some rubber strips like car tread between the axle and the square tubing where the U-bolts are located so the U-bolts won't pull the bend out of the axle. If this is not clear let me know. Best of luck.

We are in Iowa at the Winnebago factory making the final decisions concerning our new MH that we ordered. We did a factory tour today, saw the 2014 interior colors and made those decisions. Signed the final papers and now the wait, probably 8 weeks.

TeJay

 

[Tfitz]

Re: Tire and axle failure in 2011 BRS28 - HELP!!!!!!!!!

Once again thanks TeJay. The tech is cold bending and believes they will fall again because of how much he has to bend them back. I am the original owner of the trailer. We purchased it brand new from the dealer in July of 2011 and it was sold to us as a 2012 model. We have recently mapped all our trips and we only have 2200 kilometers (1400 miles) on the unit so lets say 1600 miles to cover travel to and from dealer and storage. We take very good care of our investments and are more than comfortable saying we have not overloaded the trailer. I have always believed that an overloaded trailer is not only bad for the trailer it is unnessessary stress on the truck. Regarding the tech not being familiar with TT I may have been unclear when reiterating him. He is very familiar with TT they do all the alingments for the five dealers in their area. They also do all the alignments for a number of utility trailer manufacturers. What he had said was it is crazy how the TT manufacturers push the limits when so many of his customers who upgrade their TT axles and have alignments done are so happy after. He thought the original TT manufacturer would want their customer to be as happy but I digress... As far as your suggestion to add steel to the tubes my wrench pulling skills are not what they used to be. I broke my neck 5 months ago and have just started walking again and crawling under the unit is alot of work for me. I can do most things just takes far too long which is why it is so important that I have a solid reliable coach. Hope to hear something today from the dealer telling us whether or not Lippert will cover the axles under warranty, keep your fingers crossed for me because I am not sure I can afford new axles having been away from work for so long. I was so looking forward to relaxing and spending the long weekends camping with my wife and daughter after everything we have been through.


Sounds like you have had an exciting day at the factory and good luck trying to contain you rexcitement for 8 weeks

 

[TravelTiger]

Tfitz, You might contact Heartland and/or Lippert with your expert's opinion, and they may find your axles were defective....


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[Tfitz]

Hi TravelTiger,

My dealer is dealing direct with Lippert and the report from the alignment shop has been sent along with photos of the old tires wear and photos of the axles. Sure hope lippert comes through.

 

[Tfitz]

Hi TravelTiger,

My dealer is dealing direct with Lippert and the report from the alignment shop has been sent along with photos of the old tires wear and photos of the axles. Sure hope lippert comes through.

Wow! my dealer still has had no response from Lippert and it has been a week since the original submission of the alignment shop report and photos. Should I be thinking the worst? TeeJay if I could come to the information well one more time. Is there such a thing as a 3500 lb axles that is heavier duty than another 3500 lb axle. I was of the premise that a 3500 lb rating was a 3500 lb rating?

Thanks again!!

 

[TeJay]

Wow this sounds like sales talk. My 3,500 LB axle is stronger than your 3,500 Lb axle. You are correct. The weight rating of the axle is just that, it is rated to support 3,500 Lb's of axle weight before reaching its limits. There is a built in safety margin because no axle will fail when it reaches exactly 3,500 LB's. Your alignment guy sounds right on. I also would be concerned about how much it bent, since you were careful not to overload the axles, and if he sets the camber it just might bend again. It is possible that the axle tubes are not the correct diameter for that weight. It might be worth a look. Find some other 3,500 LB axles and put a caliper around the tube and check its diameter, then check yours. If the axle tube is a smaller diameter and or thinner metal tubing it won't handle the weight. Just an idea and maybe that's been checked. Problem solving does involve more than just fixing and or replacing parts. Maybe those original axles were 3,000 LB axles with a 3,500 LB sticker on them. Here's what happened to us. We ordered a new trailer and since the first one came with 3,000 LB axles I requested 3,500LB axles. The trailer was shipped and it had 3,000 LB axles. So they ordered 3,500LB axles. When I went to pick up the trailer they installed the new axles but they sent another set of 3,000 LB axles and the tech never looked at the big white sticker on the axle. He just put in another set of 3,000 LB axles. It only because I checked that they had to order another st of axles. Anything can happen in these places. Over my many years fixing things my most trouble always came when a new part was installed only to find out much, much, later that the replacement part was also defective. Everybody assumes just because it says it's this that it must be exactly what it says. That is not always true.
Keep up the good work and don't let them slide.

TeJay

 

[Tfitz]

Thanks TeJay between you and my alignment guy I have learned alot. My alignment guy did say the qualty of the present axles was questionable as they have 2 3/8 tubes where the 3500 lb axles he deals with have a 3" tube so he as you did questioned the rating tag on the axle. I have a friend that just started at Transport Canada maybe I will give him a call to see if he can look into cases of incorrectly rated axles.

 

[TeJay]

Thanks and you are welcome. Problem solving has been and will always be about gathering accurate information then looking in the direction of the weakest link and or testing things until you determine the weak link. You didn't overload the axles. You were the only owner. The tires wore prematurely. You found a good alignment guy who saw something out of the ordinary based on his information and experiences. You won't accept that the axle bent for no reason and tires don't wear out for no reason. There has to be something else contributing to the symptoms. Excessive negative camber (tire tilting away from you at the top) does not just happen for no reason. What often happens on these and other forums is a guy will respond to your problem with what he did to correct his problem. So you try what he did and it didn't work because not enough facts were gathered. So you wasted $$$$ and still have the problem.

Electrical issues are the real difficult ones. A guy drives 6 hours to a CG and has a low B+ (battery) voltage. Before he plugs into the CG his camper lights are very dim. He's been driving all day so it should be charged. Eventually he seeks help and somebody says maybe he has a bad cell in the coach B+ because he had a similar situation and that solved his problem. so he replaces the coach B+. But that didn't fix his problem. The correct approach is to measure the voltage at the coach B+ before he starts the TV then after it is started. Before it should be around 12-V's, after should be 13.5-V's showing that the TV is supplying a charging voltage to the B+. That's a simple thing to do to gather information concerning a low B+. If the voltage is the same before and after starting then he has a TV charging problem. Even if your coach B+ is completely ruined that will not affect the TV charging voltage. It just won't accept the charge that is being supplied to it. TEST,TEST,TEST, then TEST some more.

Again, you are welcome and it is always a pleasure to help others.

 

[Tfitz]

TeeJay have a read below I needed my shovel as I read Lipperts reply to my axle failure claim. The axles have not yet been realigned it was the alignment shop that said not to realign them as they are to small for the trailer and will fall again and I have no idea what they mean when they say the axles are overloaded because the pictures I sent where take when the trailer was empty so if they saw an overload in a picture it was the dry trailer sitting on their inferior axles. Why did I trade my 2005 Komfort again. Shame on me i should have done more investigating before switching to a Heartland product.
Entered on 05/14/2013 at 09:21:41 EDT (GMT-0400) by Wendy Isaacs:
Good morning! If you look at the picture attached you will see the leaf spring is over loaded which is consistent with the inside tire wear. The axles were aligned without prior approval. When the beams are aligned it changes the form of our original product and does not allow us to test the beams. Trailer axles are not the same as car axles. Based on the pictures the axles are overloaded and with an alignment the customer will likely see this same issue arise in the future. This coach has also been out of warranty since 07/30/12. We regret to inform you it is for these reasons why we will not be providing warranty assistance. Please let us know if you have any questions.


Thank you,

Lippert Components, Inc.
Kinro, Inc.
Customer Service Division #39
Divisions of Drew Industries
1701 Century Drive
Goshen, IN 46528

 

[danemayer]

Tfitz,

I have a 2012 28brs that at the end of last season I brought to the dealer to have the axles flipped,

Reading back to the first post of the thread, it sounds like the problem occurred after having the axles flipped. If you'll allow me to speculate, I suspect when Lippert says your picture shows the springs overloaded, that might be what they're talking about.

Anyway, now you have a situation where you feel that the parts are defective and that Lippert should stand behind them even though it's out of warranty by nearly a year. From Lippert's point of view, if they're looking at a picture that shows flipped springs, I have no doubt the modification clouds the issue enough that they're assuming the problem was caused by the modification, not by defective parts.

I think the only chance you have of changing their minds would be to point out that the alignment has not been done, and ask them to examine the parts to determine cause of failure.

 

[Tfitz]

Danemayer,
The axles were flipped by the North Trail dealer in September of 2012 and upon picking it up it was taken directly to storage (10miles) those axls have only seen 10 miles since being flipped and if flipping the axles was such an issue why did the dealer not say this was not an approved procedure. The tire wear occured before the axles were flipped. My previous posts indicated that it was not until i picked up the trailer from the dealer that the wear on the tires was noticed. We only get 4 months of camping in the part of Canada that i am located so as far as the warranty period goes there was not enough time/use to show the problem (convenient for the manufacturer I guess) my fault for not doing more research before buying. Thanks for your suggestion regarding the alignment. I am still waiting on a friend who just started working for transport canada to get back to me regarding the under sizing of axles on travel trailers to see if there is another avenue i can travel regarding my issue.

 

[TravelTiger]

Tfitz,

Are you able to communicate directly with Lippert? Sounds like something was lost in translation. I think if you explain, just as you did here, about the limited use of the trailer and the dealer pointing out the bent axles and bad wear prior to the flip, you might get some better answers. I would not give up just yet!