To delete or not delete (DPF/EGR)

[RandyDeb]

Hi guys
My first visit to this form so you old timers are going to role your eyes at the new guy I'm sure, but here it goes anyway.

I have a 2008 F-350 6.4 4x4 DRW CC long box King Ranch that is stock except for a Bully Dog GT tuner that I put in when I got the truck and a 60 gal axillary fuel tank toolbox combo that will go in next week. It had 35k when I got it in 2010 and now has 98K and runs like a dream. Its always been taken care of by a Ford dealer with any issues and oil changes. The 100K service has just been C/W. So all new fluids and oil have been taken care of. I'm happy with the power it puts out, but would like better mileage when pulling our 2008 BH 3670. I make about 10 +- when towing and find the best economy is about 65 MPH without the cc on. This truck is my baby for sure.

We are planning a trip to Alaska this summer that will be 8K to 10K miles of towing and then to Florida next winter. In the 65K miles have put on this truck it has done a DPF regen maybe 6 or 7 times that I can remember. But I hear stories about 6.4's that can't go a few days without a regen and are fuel pigs at best. I have talked with the owner of Mikes Diesel in Northwood ND about deleting the DPF,EGR and changing the exhaust to a 4", adding new cold air intake and a new tuner. Total cost of about 3K and I would keep the Bully Dog for extra monitoring of trans temp, turbo pressure and whatever...

So my question is this worth the expense? I don't want to get in the middle of nowhere and have an issue with the DPF. The extra mileage would sure be nice also. What is a reasonable expectation of mileage and HP increase?

Any advise would be appreciated.


Randy

 

[cookie]

Re: To delete or not delete

Well, if you take a trip of 10,000 miles at your current 10 mpg, figure $3/gal of fuel then you will use 1,000 gallons of fuel. $3,000.
If you gain 3 mpg with the delete and exhaust, if, you will use 769 gallons of fuel at a cost of $2,307.
So you would save about $700 in fuel and have to put on over 40,000 miles to recoup the $3,000 delete and exhaust.
Don't hold me to any of these numbers, it's just the way I look at things and all numbers are just estimates.

Peace
Dave

 

[porthole]

Re: To delete or not delete

I don't bother with the big mods anymore on the trucks. In the past I found little gain for a lot of expense. But that was before trucks with CCR and DPF's and DEF and a host of other acronyms. When it was just a catalyst and bigger pipes things were different.

But - if I had your truck I would at least add the coolant filter and go through the 1 month, 6 month 1 year filter change.

Sinister Diesel coolant filter

I don't know if they make it for you truck, but I think if I was going on an extended trip through Alaska I would add fuel filtration to my truck.

Dieselsite Ford 6.7 Filters

- - - Updated - - -

Again, I don't know about your specific truck, but on the Ford Scorpion 6.7 diesel, the DPF regen is mainly based on two checkpoints, mileage and DPF loading (% soot level).

I don't keep records but what i have found, my DPF regen starts up based on either the filter loading (loads quicker when not towing) or about 450 miles.

I don't recall in 87,000 miles in the past 6.5 years, having a regen interval greater then about 450 miles.

 

[Codive]

Re: To delete or not delete

I don't bother with the big mods anymore on the trucks. In the past I found little gain for a lot of expense. But that was before trucks with CCR and DPF's and DEF and a host of other acronyms. When it was just a catalyst and bigger pipes things were different.

But - if I had your truck I would at least add the coolant filter and go through the 1 month, 6 month 1 year filter change.

Sinister Diesel coolant filter

I don't know if they make it for you truck, but I think if I was going on an extended trip through Alaska I would add fuel filtration to my truck.

Dieselsite Ford 6.7 Filters

- - - Updated - - -

Again, I don't know about your specific truck, but on the Ford Scorpion 6.7 diesel, the DPF regen is mainly based on two checkpoints, mileage and DPF loading (% soot level).

I don't keep records but what i have found, my DPF regen starts up based on either the filter loading (loads quicker when not towing) or about 450 miles.

I don't recall in 87,000 miles in the past 6.5 years, having a regen interval greater then about 450 miles.

You're going to get me in trouble with that kind of information



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[212Pilot]

Re: To delete or not delete

We just drove to Alaska last week and where we are today Diesel is $3.10/ Gal. In Canada we averaged 1.18/L (CD) thats about $3.80/Gal USD. (for your calculations and analysis.) Those prices typically go up for the tourist season. Last year I deleted the EGR System, replaced the exhaust with 4" MBRP, and added EFILive custom tunes to my 03 GMC Serria. I did all the work myself except the custom tunes. I gained 7MPG average unloaded and 4MPG loaded. Out of pocket I spent just over $500. I saved half that is one trip down the ALCAN. We drove over 30000 miles last year. It paid for itself many times over. I just got a 2017 Chevy 3500 DRW LTZ and I'm considering the new exhaust, DPF/DEF delete, and custom tuning as soon as they crack the code on the New Duramax L5P engine, with the hope of better fuel economy.

 

[avvidclif]

I did the DPF/Cat delete on mine. No other changes except for the mildest tune available (H&S). I might have picked up 2 MPG towing and almost none when not. Still abt 16.5. I'm trying to justify a turbo back 4" system but don't know if it's worth it. So far I'm out abt $700, tuner, pipe, and labor.... Truck in my sig.

YMMV

 

[superduty08]

I had my '08 6.4 start dropping to low power while towing when going up long hills. Took it to Ford in Fort Walton and was told I needed a new dpf to fix the problem ($3800). We left the next Sunday and had the same problem but limped it 500 miles home. Took it to a local dealer and they found low fuel pressure and replaced the low pressure pump ( $1800). Pulled the BH from west Tn to Pidegon Forge for the SE rally and all went well. On the way back it started running hot so I got off I40 and checked the coolant to find that it was empty but no steam or coolant on the ground. Was towed to the closest Ford dealer to find that both egr coolers were split and caused damage to the the entire system. $8200 later we were on our way home and again all was good. Now knowing the expense and problems with the egr and dpf, I wanted them gone. I had them deleted, removed completely and 4" pipe from the turbo back. My "Diesel Doctor" also put a tune to make it more efficient. It increased my towing mileage from 8-9 to 9-10 but it feels good on the throttle. This all stared around 100k miles. All of this to say get rid of the egr and dpf to save dollars and trouble.

 

[porthole]

Your EGR cooler failure is directly related to the cooling system clogging up with sand and grit form the casting.
That is the purpose of the Sinister Diesel cooling system filter I linked to above.

Older trucks, especially out of warranty, I would consider doing all the delete stuff - if you can, especially the EGR crap. Won't be long before you are unable to do any of the deletes.

The newer trucks, not so much. There seems to be only one outfit that has been successful running programs and tunes for the 6.7 Ford.
But there have been plenty of issues that crop up on the forums from using those tunes.

 

[RandyDeb]

Thanks for the feedback. That's what I'm concerned about and what happened to Superduty 08 gives me the chills! Roadside selfies are not my idea of a good time. 3K could be just a drop in the bucket if things go bad and you find yourself in the middle of nowhere.

 

[212Pilot]

Thanks for the feedback. That's what I'm concerned about and what happened to Superduty 08 gives me the chills! Roadside selfies are not my idea of a good time. 3K could be just a drop in the bucket if things go bad and you find yourself in the middle of nowhere.

The negative of deleting EGR and DPF is if you live in a place that does emissions testing of diesel vehicles your truck may not pass. It you sell or trade your truck that may also be a problem. I have read some dealers will not accept as a trade if emissions equipment has been deleted.

 

[porthole]

The negative of deleting EGR and DPF is if you live in a place that does emissions testing of diesel vehicles your truck may not pass. It you sell or trade your truck that may also be a problem. I have read some dealers will not accept as a trade if emissions equipment has been deleted.

Missed one negative, the cleaner running diesel. My 6.7 Ford is the cleanest running diesel I have ever had. My tailpipe is about as clean today as it was 6.5 years ago when I bought the truck.

After doing the deletes on my 2006 DMax, I had to clean the right side of the trailer after every trip. Wasn't much, and there was no visible smoke, but it was there.
I didn't do the DMax deletes until I had 50,000 miles, right after the EGR clogged and I had my last dealer visit for warranty repair (49,600 miles)

 

[jayc]

Good point Duane. When I had my '02 D Max, I added a tuner and it put off a huge amount of black smoke, especially when I put my foot in the throttle. It was so much fun to drive with the extra power and it was hard to stay off it. I am hesitant to delete my truck now because of that. I'm well out of warranty, so no concern there. If we travel to a state that tests for diesel emissions and they see black smoke rolling off my exhaust pipe, they may down me until I get it repaired, which will be very expensive

 

[avvidclif]

The negative of deleting EGR and DPF is if you live in a place that does emissions testing of diesel vehicles your truck may not pass. It you sell or trade your truck that may also be a problem. I have read some dealers will not accept as a trade if emissions equipment has been deleted.

I've read that a dealer cannot take in a vehicle (trade or buy) that has been deleted. Supposedly an emission law. That's why when it (DPF/CAT) was taken off mine it was put in the barn sealed up and ready to go back if needed. A few bolts and remove the tuner and it's back stock. As far as the smoke, yes my tailpipe is now black and if I really get on the loud pedal it will blow some black smoke. But it hasn't left smoke on the trailer or the back of the PU. Towing it never shows smoke that I can see because I drive like there is an egg on the pedal when taking off.

 

[porthole]

I've read that a dealer cannot take in a vehicle (trade or buy) that has been deleted. Supposedly an emission law. That's why when it (DPF/CAT) was taken off mine it was put in the barn sealed up and ready to go back if needed. A few bolts and remove the tuner and it's back stock. As far as the smoke, yes my tailpipe is now black and if I really get on the loud pedal it will blow some black smoke. But it hasn't left smoke on the trailer or the back of the PU. Towing it never shows smoke that I can see because I drive like there is an egg on the pedal when taking off.

A very high percentage of vehicles traded in go right the auction house.

 

[carl.swoyer]

213000 miles original injectors.I have a 2005 Silverado lly duramax Allison crew cab long bed Lt. I purchased it used in December 29 of 06. The bully dog dyno dominator with the triple dog was all ready Installed .It also has the 6 in dual exhaust with the large k&n style air filter. ( original owner pulled a 40 foot toy hauler)So at 32000 miles the dash board had never been reset. Average mpg was 11 mpg.
Shortly after I purchased it the #2 and #7 injectors shorted out. I removed the bully dog system to get the warranty issues covered and never put it back on. I'm averaging 11/12 mpg Towing 16/18 city 20/22 HWY. City hwy is not towing. Occasionally I will drop under 10 mpg Towing but clean fuel and air filters it goes back up. I have always used Lucas fuel additive. Rotella t-6 oil and tow around 62 to 63 mph. Probably the biggest reason for not putting the bully dog system back on was three Duramax diesel at the same dealer waiting on new transmissions.

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[carl.swoyer]

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[carl.swoyer]

What are you getting towing/city hyw and not towing

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[RandyDeb]

My 08 6.4 dully runs about 9 to 10 MPG towing and 15 plus when not pulling our BH 3670. We are in West central MN so no emissions checks as of now. I have decided to go ahead and remove the DPF, EGR cooler put on 4" exhaust, Add S&B cold air intake with a rap and SCT tuner. I'm going to keep the Bully Dog GT tuner for extra monitoring of temps. I'm also adding in a RDS 60 gal fuel tank toolbox combo so I'll have 95 gal fuel capacity total. I really don't like looking for fuel every 4 hours when on the road. Do you guys recommend a filter for this tank? its gravity feed so no pump. I like the idea of a filter, but not sure if putting a filter in would keep it from feeding correctly. Any experience with the SCT tuner?

What do you think

Randy

 

[cookie]

I do not have a filter from my aux tank.
I have two filters on the truck.

Peace
Dave

 

[jnbhobe]

I only have a little inline filter on my aux. tank, there are 2 filters on the truck.