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recumbent615
04-27-2017, 02:29 PM
All,

I have been towing my Heartland Cyclone 3010 since 2011 with my Chevy 2500HD short-bed. the little Red truck is approaching 300K and is starting to worry me some. So I have started the search for a replacement. But having only owned one truck in my life and reading what I can I still would like some first hand advise from the people I know are using a truck the way I do. So my questions are as follows:


1) Those of you who are towing with a 1 ton with single Wheel drive; If you had to do over would you opt for a dually
?

2) Those of you who are towing with a 1 ton dually
; if you had to do it over again would you opt for a SWD?

The Chevy Line has two rear end gears ( I am sure Dodge does too ) Wondering about fuel usage:

3) if you have the 4.10 Rear End:

3a) what do you get for MPG when towing
3b) what do you get for MPG not towing

4) if you have the 3.73 Rear End:

4a) what do you get for MPG when towing
4b) what do you get for MPG not towing



My plans are to get a 1 ton ( Chevy or Dodge ) late model Diesel and I am on the fence on the rear end and if I should go for the dually since it will also be a daily driver.

in the lovely state of Ma, 1 one ton is a commercial vehicle regardless of the rear axle so there is no extra cost except for maintenance and tolls

Thanks for your advice and insight. Happy Camping.


Kevin

'Lil Guy'
04-27-2017, 02:36 PM
The drw is your best option because of the increased payload....I' have the 3:73 RE on my 2015 Ram and get 16 to 17 MPG in town and on the road. I don't drive it that easy,either. I also get over 10 towing our BH.

With the 4:10 RE, you might get better towing but less when not towing. Not sure on that but seems like the RE would make a difference on the highway.

Hope this helps.

farside291
04-27-2017, 02:39 PM
1. I towed with a single rear wheel for 3 years now I have a dually and would never go back, the difference in stability is quite noticeable especially in a cross wind.
2. Never go back to SRW
3. 4.10 in 2016 Ram, average 10 on a good day at 65 mpg, unloaded 16 mpg
4. 3.73 in 2003 Chevy Duramax, average 11 mpg on a good day. Unloaded 21 mpg. Not sure of difference, dodge has gobs more power the my old 2003 duramax.

Oh, one more thing, with the 4.10 in the Ram, you get the really cool differential cover.

billk263
04-27-2017, 02:41 PM
2 wheel drive or 4?


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JWalker
04-27-2017, 03:48 PM
Kevin, I'm sure you're going to get a lot of different answers. But here are my findings.

ElkRidge 15200lbs
I had an 07 RAM DRW with 3:73
Now have a 16 RAM DRW with 4:10

Mountain towing- 10.5-11.0 mpg (about 1.5 MPG better than before)
Flat towing- 12.0-13.0 (about 1.0 mpg better than before)

I'll be honest though, I have not had the new truck on any type of flat towing. I did have it up at your rally in Cape Cod last year but the whole trip home follows the spine of the Appalachian Mountains. So it was nothing but Rolling hills and up-and-down.

I can't answer the pros and cons from a DRW to a SRW. As I've only towed with the DRW.

Are you looking at having something before Goshen?

CoveredWagon
04-27-2017, 05:28 PM
All,

I have been towing my Heartland Cyclone 3010 since 2011 with my Chevy 2500HD short-bed. the little Red truck is approaching 300K and is starting to worry me some. So I have started the search for a replacement. But having only owned one truck in my life and reading what I can I still would like some first hand advise from the people I know are using a truck the way I do. So my questions are as follows:


1) Those of you who are towing with a 1 ton with single Wheel drive; If you had to do over would you opt for a dually
?

2) Those of you who are towing with a 1 ton dually
; if you had to do it over again would you opt for a SWD?

The Chevy Line has two rear end gears ( I am sure Dodge does too ) Wondering about fuel usage:

3) if you have the 4.10 Rear End:

3a) what do you get for MPG when towing
3b) what do you get for MPG not towing

4) if you have the 3.73 Rear End:

4a) what do you get for MPG when towing
4b) what do you get for MPG not towing



My plans are to get a 1 ton ( Chevy or Dodge ) late model Diesel and I am on the fence on the rear end and if I should go for the dually since it will also be a daily driver.

in the lovely state of Ma, 1 one ton is a commercial vehicle regardless of the rear axle so there is no extra cost except for maintenance and tolls

Thanks for your advice and insight. Happy Camping.


Kevin


4.10 gears are gasoline engines. 3.73 gears are Diesel engine gears. For Chevys and GMC that is.

wdk450
04-27-2017, 07:14 PM
" . . . in the lovely state of Ma, 1 one ton is a commercial vehicle regardless of the rear axle so there is no extra cost except for maintenance and tolls".

Kevin

In the lovely state of California, if your vehicle has a bed that can haul cargo, it is classified as a "Commercial Vehicle". Even the Hondas and Subarus with the open mini beds. I.E., ALL PICKUP TRUCKS ARE CLASSED AS A COMMERCIAL VEHICLE.

Nuclearcowboy
04-27-2017, 07:33 PM
I started off with a 2010 GMC duramax diesel, 3.73 rear end, 2500 series, crew cab, 6.5 ft bed. I got about 11.0 mpg average when towing my BH 3270, about 17.0 mpg local driving w/o towing, and close to 19.0 mpg on a non-towing road trip. It was 4WD also.

The fifth wheel did challenge my bed load limits a little, not much, so we traded up to 2016 GMC dually, crew cab, duramax diesel Denali, 3.73 fear end, 8.0 ft bed, also 4WD. We also traded up to a larger fifth wheel a little after that, the BH 3970RD. Glad I have the dually with this unit! Believe it or not, same mileage stats within a couple of tenths.

I would NEVER go back to a SRW. I really notice the difference in the bed payload ability and the handling improvements in windy conditions. Plus, this unit has an exhaust brake, which certainly helps minimize wear and tear on the brakes in the mountains. And I use my truck daily as my going back and forth to work truck and absolutely love it.

billk263
04-27-2017, 09:43 PM
In the lovely state of California, if your vehicle has a bed that can haul cargo, it is classified as a "Commercial Vehicle". Even the Hondas and Subarus with the open mini beds. I.E., ALL PICKUP TRUCKS ARE CLASSED AS A COMMERCIAL VEHICLE.

You can register your truck as a non commercial vehicle, but don't get caught with even a shovel in the bed...


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rdufek
04-28-2017, 08:18 AM
Hi Kevin,

Having both owned a SRW and DRW tow vehicle I would not go back to SRW. DRW is a much better ride and certainly more stable going down the highway IMHO. While it can be a little more challenging to find a parking spot I always seem to find one. I've owned both Dodge and GM and GM gets slightly better gas mileage, about 1.5 miles better to the gallon. That being said, GM comes with a larger gas tank, 4 more gallons. Now mind you on the mileage is with DRW vehicles. A friend of mine owns a SRW GM and he even gets better gas mileage. I don't have a comparison to the different axle ratios on gas mileage. I have found between city driving and pulling my BigHorn on the highway the gas mileage stays fairly close at about 12mpg in GMC and about 10.5 on the Dodge. If I'm not pulling I can get between 18-19 miles to the gallon on the highway. I just upgraded to the new 2017 GMC 3500 DRW with the new engine

445 Horsepower
910 lb.ft. of torque
12% increase in horsepower and 19% increase in torque vs previous model


My previous was a 2014 Dodge DRW

recumbent615
04-28-2017, 09:51 AM
Hi Jamie,

no not sure when I will find the right late model - I just can not see paying for a new one - for what I need I rather save the $$ and take someones Cast off ... :-)



Kevin, I'm sure you're going to get a lot of different answers. But here are my findings.

ElkRidge 15200lbs
I had an 07 RAM DRW with 3:73
Now have a 16 RAM DRW with 4:10

Mountain towing- 10.5-11.0 mpg (about 1.5 MPG better than before)
Flat towing- 12.0-13.0 (about 1.0 mpg better than before)

I'll be honest though, I have not had the new truck on any type of flat towing. I did have it up at your rally in Cape Cod last year but the whole trip home follows the spine of the Appalachian Mountains. So it was nothing but Rolling hills and up-and-down.

I can't answer the pros and cons from a DRW to a SRW. As I've only towed with the DRW.

Are you looking at having something before Goshen?

JWalker
04-28-2017, 10:07 AM
Hi Jamie,

no not sure when I will find the right late model - I just can not see paying for a new one - for what I need I rather save the $$ and take someones Cast off ... :-)

I understand that. That's how we got into our first DRW. Wasn't planning on it. But drove by the lot and found one that was two years old with 9000 miles on it and got a tremendous deal. Wasn't planning on buying new this time. But with the markdowns, incentives and trade-in, walked out the door with a new one for less than 20K.

I'd say you got your moneys worth out of the old chev.

SNOKING
04-28-2017, 11:28 AM
We tow our BH3575el 16K with a 2015 RAM 3500 SRW 4x4 Diesel with Aisin tranny. All RAM 2500/3500 SRW trucks have the 3.42 gears. With the Aisin's lower 1st and 2nd gear it is a great combination. Chris

RonTimmer
04-28-2017, 12:48 PM
I have a Dodge 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi and 410 gears. I get about 10MPG pulling my fifth wheel, 14MPG in town, and around 20MPG on the highway provided I keep it at about 65-70 MPH. We had the truck before we bought our fifth wheel and when we finally bought out trailer we went bigger than we had had planned so I am now at the top end of what my truck can pull. The reason I say this is I am now also looking to move up to a 3500 and based on the limited experience I now have I am really leaning towards DRW for the stability.

Take care,
Ron

Mrsfish
04-28-2017, 01:29 PM
I will add that the one positive we weren't counting on when we switched from a srw to a drw was- my husband is not as tired at the end of our trip. Says it's just less work pulling with the dually. And we usually pull long days so that's a biggie for us!

TravelTiger
04-28-2017, 01:40 PM
Hi Jamie,

no not sure when I will find the right late model - I just can not see paying for a new one - for what I need I rather save the $$ and take someones Cast off ... :-)

Be careful about the "cast-off". I have seen there are reports here and elsewhere of fuel system problems that require an entire fuel system replacement. Some owners have paid for this, some had it covered under warranty, but many have traded the truck rather than deal with it. Dealers do the work and resell the truck, but this doesn't show up on a CarFax. Be sure to ask for the complete manufacturer's repair history (dealers have access to this) on a used truck, not just CarFax.


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212Pilot
04-28-2017, 04:31 PM
I was in the same situation as you about 6 weeks ago pulling our Cyclone 3800 with a 03 GMC 2500HD at 287000 miles. We looked at and drove the 2017 Ford F350 DRW, 2017 Dodge Ram 3500 DRW and the 2017 Chevy 3500 DRW. The Chevy out performed the others and thats what we bought. We also shopped used trucks FSBO and on a few lots. The used diesel market with less than 30K miles people wanted more than or very close to what you can buy new. We got 10K off MSRP they included a Gooseneck hitch and 0% financing. I couldn't find a nice used truck for that price. After towing from Utah to Alaska I am very happy with my choice and would not go back to a SRW. With 3.73 gears I average 8 MPG towing (65-70 MPH) and 17 with out a load. I expect those numbers to get better as it gets more miles on the engine. On the ALCAN there are some steep grades 9 and 10%. The engine brake was amazing on the down grades holding 45 MPH and I could accelerate up a 9% grade.

gslabbert5119
04-30-2017, 08:34 AM
I am going to throw in my 2c worth as well.

The DRW has a better payload, but do you really need it. I did a ton of research when I bought my truck in 2015 and I looking at Ford, Chevy & Ram.
Turns out that the payload is dictated not only by the spring rating but also whether you have a 4x4 or 4x2 ans well as whether you have a extended cab or a full cab.


Check the pin weight of your rig and then decide whether you want to incur the extra cost of a DRW or a 3500 which essentially has only an extra leaf spring. (well in a Ford)

What I ended up with was the 2015 Ford f250 super cab 6.7l Diesel in a 2x4.
It produces somewhere around 440 HP at 1800 rpm and over 925 ft lb of torque.
I then added a set of airbags to keep my vehicle level and saved myself close to $30k in vehicle costs.
Vehicles PIN Weight is 3710 lbs which is about 1500 lbs more than my rigs pin weight

I am sure that you can find something similar in either Chevy or Dodge

I tow a heavy rig and its specs are here
Bighorn 3685RL
GVWR 15,500 lbs
Dry Weight 12,192 lbs
Pin Weight 2,320 lbs
Width 8' 0"
Height 12' 11"
Length 38' 7"

Mileage. In 18 months I have put over 40k miles on my truck and rig and we average about 10.5 mpg at between 70 & 75 mph

Now that I am out of warranty, I am going to look into getting this truck chipped and have a cold air system added in an attempt to increase the Miles Per Gallon. I am told that I should be able to get somewhere around 13 mpg at 75 mph. That would be nice and a huge savings

Hope this helps some

danemayer
04-30-2017, 08:41 AM
saved myself close to $30k in vehicle costs.

What would that extra $30K have bought?

gslabbert5119
04-30-2017, 09:01 AM
What would that extra $30K have bought?

After careful shopping I bought my rig in Texas from a dealer that had a custom order 4x2 that the buyer backed out of, and everyone in that park of Texas wanted a 4x4, so in mid 2015 I paid $29,800.00 OTD for the following truck.

2015 f250 6.6L Diesel long bed, extended cab, XLT with a full towing package including an exhaust brake and all the extras that come with it. Basically it is fully tricked out except for leather seats (which I wish that I had)

I priced the 2015 f350 DRW XLT with the long bed in a 4x4 and they wanted just a hair under 60k for the 6.7 diesel unit and I did not see the value or why that truck should cost that, and figured that it was a price based on supply and demand.

I am extremely happy with my configuration.

What did I not get that I wish that I had. Leather electric seats, but that is about it.

What did I not get that could have driven the price up to that 60k price, I truly do not know, and I can tell you I sure do not miss it, whatever it may be.

This is my first diesel and I can tell you that I simply love it, I can tow my rig up the continental divide past Vail at 70 mph in cruise control without even a hiccup. The new 2015 6.7L Diesel is a beast and a huge improvement over the 2014 and earlier.

TravelTiger
04-30-2017, 09:25 AM
The DRW has a better payload, but do you really need it....

Vehicles PIN Weight is 3710 lbs which is about 1500 lbs more than my rigs pin weight.

I am confused by these statements. What vehicle pin weight are you talking about? The payload of the truck? If it's 3710, that's pretty low. That has to handle the weight of your hitch, passengers, pets, any stuff in the cab, anything else in the bed (tools, etc), plus the pin weight of the loaded rig.

And 1500 more than rig pin weight... what pin weight are you referencing? A dry pin weight from the brochure?

Dry pin weight is NOT what your rig weighs. You are probably looking at a loaded pin weight of your rig of closer to 3k.

Check out http://fifthwheelst.com/rvtc_calculator.html




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gslabbert5119
04-30-2017, 09:31 AM
Thanks I will check it out, but what I was attempting to say is that the 2500 or 250 can easily & legally handle the towing weight as well being legal. The towing weight is over 31k but these number do not always relate in my brain.
Sorry for any confusion, for i am attempting to tap into a 2 year old discussion in a 65 year old brain. I doesnt always work that way it should ... lol ...

Here are the specs off the Ford site



Maximum Conventional Towing
21,000 lbs.


Maximum 5th Wheel Towing
27,500 lbs.


Maximum Gooseneck Towing
32,500 lbs.


Maximum Payload
7,630 lbs.


Maximum GVWR
14,000 lbs.





I am confused by these statements. What vehicle pin weight are you talking about? The payload of the truck? If it's 3710, that's pretty low. That has to handle the weight of your hitch, passengers, pets, any stuff in the cab, anything else in the bed (tools, etc), plus the pin weight of the loaded rig.

And 1500 more than rig pin weight... what pin weight are you referencing? A dry pin weight from the brochure?

Dry pin weight is NOT what your rig weighs. You are probably looking at a loaded pin weight of your rig of closer to 3k.

Check out http://fifthwheelst.com/rvtc_calculator.html




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TravelTiger
04-30-2017, 10:01 AM
Thanks I will check it out, but what I was attempting to say is that the 2500 or 250 can easily & legally handle the towing weight as well being legal. The towing weight is over 31k but these number do not always relate in my brain.
Sorry for any confusion, for i am attempting to tap into a 2 year old discussion in a 65 year old brain. I doesnt always work that way it should ... lol ...

Here are the specs off the Ford site



Maximum Conventional Towing
21,000 lbs.


Maximum 5th Wheel Towing
27,500 lbs.


Maximum Gooseneck Towing
32,500 lbs.


Maximum Payload
7,630 lbs.


Maximum GVWR
14,000 lbs.



Ok, those numbers are for your exact make/model/cab style/bed/engine size/4x2?




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danemayer
04-30-2017, 10:20 AM
One of ways that manufacturers make it difficult for us is that they publish "up to" or "maximum" numbers. Those claims usually are for a very specific configuration that no one actually buys.

I think if you look inside the drivers side door on your truck, you'll find a maximum load or maximum payload spec for your truck and it won't say 7,630 lbs. More likely it's going to say something like 2,800 lbs.

If you can't find that number, you can probably find an actual GVWR for the truck, from which you can subtract your actual curb weight. That will also give you the maximum payload, although you could have weak link components that reduce it even further. I'll be pretty surprised if there is any F250 with a GVWR of 14,000 lbs.

When you have the real numbers, and go to a weigh station, you'll probably find that you're actually way, way over the payload rating for the truck.

And no doubt it tows just fine with the airbags. But if you ever have to tow in adverse weather conditions and have an emergency situation, like a sudden lane change, the story might be different.

gslabbert5119
04-30-2017, 10:27 AM
Good guess, but not correct.
The sticker says the following ...
GVWR 10,000 lbs (4536kg)
Rear GAWR 6100 lbs

Do you require a photo ?



One of ways that manufacturers make it difficult for us is that they publish "up to" or "maximum" numbers. Those claims usually are for a very specific configuration that no one actually buys.

I think if you look inside the drivers side door on your truck, you'll find a maximum load or maximum payload spec for your truck and it won't say 7,630 lbs. More likely it's going to say something like 2,800 lbs.

If you can't find that number, you can probably find an actual GVWR for the truck, from which you can subtract your actual curb weight. That will also give you the maximum payload, although you could have weak link components that reduce it even further. I'll be pretty surprised if there is any F250 with a GVWR of 14,000 lbs.

When you have the real numbers, and go to a weigh station, you'll probably find that you're actually way, way over the payload rating for the truck.

And no doubt it tows just fine with the airbags. But if you ever have to tow in adverse weather conditions and have an emergency situation, like a sudden lane change, the story might be different.

danemayer
04-30-2017, 10:28 AM
Good guess, but not correct.
The sticker says the following ...
GVWR 10,000 lbs (4536kg)
Rear GAWR 6100 lbs

Do you require a photo ?

And the Curb Weight, or Payload?

gslabbert5119
04-30-2017, 10:29 AM
Not on the sticker that I can see

Max Payload rating for my specific truck is 3760 lbs


And the Curb Weight, or Payload?

gslabbert5119
04-30-2017, 11:15 AM
My apologies for hijacking the thread, but my contentment with my truck and that it meets all the legal requirements as well as ease of towing and emergency stopping all continue to hold true despite what may be suggested yet not proven IMO.

recumbent615
05-01-2017, 10:11 AM
No problem on the Hijacking -

I went into this knowing full well that discussions other than my questions would happen - that is what I love about this club/forum. Great people and diversity of experience. I personally have spent the last 6 years towing with a 2500 Diesel and it has performed well enough and since I had the truck when I bought my Rig - I purchased the rig for the truck. now that I am in the market for a new ( used ) truck i want to make sure it is more truck than I need today - so if I decide to get a new rig I am not limited by the tow vehicle.

gslabbert5119
05-01-2017, 10:20 AM
If I decide to get a new rig I am not limited by the tow vehicle.

That makes it pretty simple then, buy the truck that best fits into your budget and your anticipated needs. For me though, a Dually really does not work, as I my truck doubles as a personal vehicle, and I found that the dually was just too cumbersome in a relatively large city, plus a 39' rig is about as long as I am prepared to go.
Further, from what I am reading (and this may be incorrect so do not take it as gospel) the newer rigs in similar sizes of yesteryear are getting lighter and this could play a part in your evaluation.

Now, I am not a Ford, Chevy or Ram guy and I purchased the most powerful truck with the largest towing capacity that I could find in my price range, and that turned out to be the Ford f250 Super Duty 6.7L diesel at the time of my purchase, and that too may not hold true any longer with manufacturers being what they are.

Good luck in your search.

porthole
05-01-2017, 12:06 PM
Kevin, if you recall, when we ordered the Cyclone I did not want go bigger because I wanted something my 2006 GMC could handle. And when I ordered the GMC I waited until mid 2016 because of the changes, there were several differences over your 2005. I also did multiple upgrades to the GMC to get ready for the Cyclone.

And as you know, we used that for about a year before I ordered the DRW.
I would guess we are a bit heavier then you with the same trailer, so the DRW really helps.
But I could not say 100% that the DRW made that much of difference over the the 2500HD. Yes it a much more capable TV, but comparing the 2006 2500 to any new ruck, the new truck is much more capable.

Figure out your percentage of miles towing versus non towing. My 89,000 miles on the Ford has a little over 30% towing. I figure for a daily driver, anything over 25% is good enough reason to jump to a DRW.

Mileage is going to be the same whatever the brand. Most likely 9-11 MPG's towing.

That said, when I order the next truck it will be a 450, which is only DRW. Waiting to see how the incentives go, and I have until 09/01 to order a 2017 . The 2017 Super Duty's are so popular Ford is not offering much on the incentive side.

Here in the northeast, the tolls are a back breaker. DRW's are about double.

farside291
05-01-2017, 12:59 PM
4.10 gears are gasoline engines. 3.73 gears are Diesel engine gears. For Chevys and GMC that is.

Not true for Ram trucks. 3.73 or 4.10 your choice. I have a 2016 Ram with the Cummins and 4.10 gears. My old Duramax you could only get 3.73 gears.

JWalker
05-01-2017, 01:16 PM
Kevin, I know about 1% of what's out there to know about tow vehicles. But I can give you a heads up on the late-model RAM trucks.
For late-model RAMS, there are three choices of transmissions available for the Cummins diesel.
-Six speed manual "G56"
-Six speed auto "68RFE"
-Six speed auto "AISIN"

Each of these transmissions offer different tow ratings. And in certain cases, each will allow more horsepower and torque to be fed to them. Different ratings for the Cummins.

If you were looking into a late-model RAM. Check the powertrain configuration. In some cases, there could be as much as 10,000 pounds difference in tow rating. All three transmissions are capable, Just in varying degrees.

J

meagle
05-01-2017, 02:50 PM
Last June I purchased a new GMC dually with the diesel engine. It replaced my SRW GMC diesel. After towing with the dually I would never go back to the SRW. My new dually has the 3.73 rear end and does a wonderful job towing my Landmark in all conditions. Recently, I was returning from a trip to Utah when we encountered very high winds for about 250 miles. My truck handled it beautifully. A friend of mine was following me with his SRW truck towing his Big Horn. He encountered a lot of sway and lateral movement. He was "white knuckled" the entire trip where I was comfortable and at ease. As a result of that experience he purchased his new Chevy dually last Saturday. I get anywhere from 9 to 13 MPG, but most of the time it is around 10.5 to 11.5 MPG. I can certainly say with no hesitation than I would purchase my dually again after towing with it. Good luck.

OldSlowHans
05-01-2017, 04:10 PM
DRW without question.

Better pin-weight capacity.

Better stability, especially in cross-wind situations.

Better safety in case of rear tire failure.

porthole
05-03-2017, 08:29 AM
Kevin, I know about 1% of what's out there to know about tow vehicles. But I can give you a heads up on the late-model RAM trucks.
For late-model RAMS, there are three choices of transmissions available for the Cummins diesel.
-Six speed manual "G56"
-Six speed auto "68RFE"
-Six speed auto "AISIN"

Each of these transmissions offer different tow ratings. And in certain cases, each will allow more horsepower and torque to be fed to them. Different ratings for the Cummins.

If you were looking into a late-model RAM. Check the powertrain configuration. In some cases, there could be as much as 10,000 pounds difference in tow rating. All three transmissions are capable, Just in varying degrees.

J


Ram should wake up and just offer the best trans as standard equipment with a workhorse diesel. GM and Ford - you only get one trans choice - the best trans for the job.

danemayer
05-03-2017, 08:38 AM
Ram should wake up and just offer the best trans as standard equipment with a workhorse diesel. GM and Ford - you only get one trans choice - the best trans for the job.

I like the AISIN transmission, but it added $2,895 to the sticker.

porthole
05-03-2017, 08:54 AM
I like the AISIN transmission, but it added $2,895 to the sticker.


Workhorse inline six diesel deserves a good trans, the Asin should be standard.

When Dodge first came out with a diesel, many moons ago, guess what almost killed the new cottage industry - the trans.

Pickups had an optional Mitsubishi diesel, was a big deal at the time. Initially with the 904 trans, yeah that didn't work.
Replaced with the 727 trans, which was the brute back in the day (440s', 440 six packs, Hemi's (real Hemi's) etc.
Still not learning a lesson the trans was connected with a standard gas engine flex plate (the plate that bolts to the crank and torque converter).
2000-3000 miles the diesel started cracking flexplates.

recumbent615
05-08-2017, 09:54 AM
Good Morning all -


First off please let me thank you all for your valuable insight and opinions ( those are the same ). this weekend I pulled the trigger on a 2014 Silvarado 3500 dually wit the 3.73 rear end - flew to Nashville TN to acquire it on Saturday am and drove home. only 60K and had not been used to tow ( although it has the tow prep ). No 5th Wheel prep so I am starting with a clean slate so to speak...

Truck had 60K miles and had no accident reports - although it appears it did have some fender damage that was replaced by the dealer. it was a southern truck and does not have any undercoating or bed liner so those will be done as the first step in making this a New England Truck.

Can not wait to get a hitch and tow with it - I know this will be a game changer as far as comfort on the road is concerned.

Driving back from Nashville I got 18mpg with @75mph average

so that is a few less than the 2500 so I expect that towing will follow and I will get around 12mpg or so... where I was getting 13 or 14...

Kevin

51530

jassson007
05-08-2017, 10:03 AM
Nice!


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alexb2000
05-08-2017, 10:07 AM
Good Morning all -


First off please let me thank you all for your valuable insight and opinions ( those are the same ). this weekend I pulled the trigger on a 2014 Silvarado 3500 dually wit the 3.73 rear end - flew to Nashville TN to acquire it on Saturday am and drove home. only 60K and had not been used to tow ( although it has the tow prep ). No 5th Wheel prep so I am starting with a clean slate so to speak...

Truck had 60K miles and had no accident reports - although it appears it did have some fender damage that was replaced by the dealer. it was a southern truck and does not have any undercoating or bed liner so those will be done as the first step in making this a New England Truck.

Can not wait to get a hitch and tow with it - I know this will be a game changer as far as comfort on the road is concerned.

Driving back from Nashville I got 18mpg with @75mph average

so that is a few less than the 2500 so I expect that towing will follow and I will get around 12mpg or so... where I was getting 13 or 14...

Kevin

51530

First congratulations on a beautiful truck. I also had a 2004 LLY 2500 that got amazing mileage (empty 20 @ 75mph). The newest ones in my experience (and now yours) come close even with all the new emissions AND you get a lot more power and a 6 speed vs. 5. Depending on the trailer 12 is probably very possible.

Keep us posted on all your mods and enjoy.

JWalker
05-08-2017, 10:52 AM
Unless I see pics, I don't believe it……lol!!

TravelTiger
05-08-2017, 11:22 AM
Good Morning all -


First off please let me thank you all for your valuable insight and opinions ( those are the same ). this weekend I pulled the trigger on a 2014 Silvarado 3500 dually wit the 3.73 rear end - flew to Nashville TN to acquire it on Saturday am and drove home. only 60K and had not been used to tow ( although it has the tow prep ). No 5th Wheel prep so I am starting with a clean slate so to speak...

Truck had 60K miles and had no accident reports - although it appears it did have some fender damage that was replaced by the dealer. it was a southern truck and does not have any undercoating or bed liner so those will be done as the first step in making this a New England Truck.

Can not wait to get a hitch and tow with it - I know this will be a game changer as far as comfort on the road is concerned.

Driving back from Nashville I got 18mpg with @75mph average

so that is a few less than the 2500 so I expect that towing will follow and I will get around 12mpg or so... where I was getting 13 or 14...

Kevin

51530

Looks great! You will love those running boards -- giving you access to the hitch easier. Does it have the B&W turnover ball? If so getting the Companion 5ver hitch is a great and easy choice!


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JWalker
05-08-2017, 11:25 AM
Unless I see pics, I don't believe it……lol!!


Never mind. The pics were not coming up when I originally logged on.

Looks great!!

Bones
05-08-2017, 11:33 AM
Never mind. The pics were not coming up when I originally logged on.

Looks great!!

And here I was thinking you were talking about the MPG and I was thinking what do you want pics of his log book. Ha ha ha LOL ;)

jnbhobe
05-08-2017, 07:04 PM
Congratulations Kevin, Looks like a nice truck.

Gaffer
05-08-2017, 08:47 PM
We tow our BH3575el 16K with a 2015 RAM 3500 SRW 4x4 Diesel with Aisin tranny. All RAM 2500/3500 SRW trucks have the 3.42 gears. With the Aisin's lower 1st and 2nd gear it is a great combination. Chris

Hey Chris, I was wondering if you experience any "hunting" for gears between 5th and 6th?

EWG
05-09-2017, 06:49 PM
I am a future Big Horn owner. As a pilot I am very careful about weights. First, every one needs to be looking at your max gross weights not dry weights on your trailer. On your TV you need to look at all of the foot notes. Example, Ford F350 SRW Super Duty says 20,000 lbs towing. But foot note says 5th wheel max is 18,000 lbs. F350 DRW Super Duty says 31,800. Foot note says 5th wheel is 27,500 lbs. Ok, so at 16,000 lbs gross wt for a 3575EL either one will tow. A F250 under certain configurations will just make it. I went to a dealer lot and looked up the payload information on the door. This is how the truck comes out of the factory with all of the options. A F350 SD SRW can carry 3155 lbs. That includes full fuel and a 150 lb driver. I am heavier than that. Add difference, now 3085 lbs. Not bad. So, 15% ideal load on a 5th wheel at 16,000 lbs is 2,400 lbs. That leaves 685 lbs. Wait, you have a hitch in the back of the truck. What 60 to 80 lbs. Now about 600 lbs for everything else, Passengers, dogs, snacks wood, bikes, etc. Not much room for error. A real world 20% is 3,100 lbs. Too heavy. A F350 SD DRW, has a 5319 lb payload. With the above max conditions you still have 2,000 lbs to put in the truck if you have the 14,000 lb GVW option. I am not a Dually guy but the numbers speak for them selves. Max numbers are misleading.

As a second thought. Most SRW trucks are short beds. All DRW are long beds. I am told the longer the truck the better the ride.

Also, just because it will pull it, doesn't mean it will tow it. Know the real numbers. Have things weighed.

danemayer
05-09-2017, 08:11 PM
Hi EWG,

Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum and thanks for contributing to the discussion.

alexb2000
05-09-2017, 10:20 PM
I am a future Big Horn owner. As a pilot I am very careful about weights. First, every one needs to be looking at your max gross weights not dry weights on your trailer. On your TV you need to look at all of the foot notes. Example, Ford F350 SRW Super Duty says 20,000 lbs towing. But foot note says 5th wheel max is 18,000 lbs. F350 DRW Super Duty says 31,800. Foot note says 5th wheel is 27,500 lbs. Ok, so at 16,000 lbs gross wt for a 3575EL either one will tow. A F250 under certain configurations will just make it. I went to a dealer lot and looked up the payload information on the door. This is how the truck comes out of the factory with all of the options. A F350 SD SRW can carry 3155 lbs. That includes full fuel and a 150 lb driver. I am heavier than that. Add difference, now 3085 lbs. Not bad. So, 15% ideal load on a 5th wheel at 16,000 lbs is 2,400 lbs. That leaves 685 lbs. Wait, you have a hitch in the back of the truck. What 60 to 80 lbs. Now about 600 lbs for everything else, Passengers, dogs, snacks wood, bikes, etc. Not much room for error. A real world 20% is 3,100 lbs. Too heavy. A F350 SD DRW, has a 5319 lb payload. With the above max conditions you still have 2,000 lbs to put in the truck if you have the 14,000 lb GVW option. I am not a Dually guy but the numbers speak for them selves. Max numbers are misleading.

As a second thought. Most SRW trucks are short beds. All DRW are long beds. I am told the longer the truck the better the ride.

Also, just because it will pull it, doesn't mean it will tow it. Know the real numbers. Have things weighed.

From another pilot let me add my welcome. Keep in mind that placarded weights on a truck or trailer are not purely derived from engineering data. Some states charge registration, tolls, and enforce commercial weight limits by capacity. In Texas for example an empty dually pulling an empty gooseneck flatbed can and do get tickets if the placard max gross weight of the truck and trailer exceed 26K and you are not licensed for commercial operations. Clearly incentive not to placard a high gross on a F350 dually since most are not driven by commercial drivers even if the truck can handle it. My point is that we should all consider our equipment carefully and keep safety in mind, but like the FAA keeping the 170 per passenger standard, there are other forces at work and the manufacturers are trying to please all of their class 2 and 3 truck customers.

TxRoadWarrior362
05-09-2017, 10:23 PM
When in doubt........punt! :cool:

JohnD
05-10-2017, 08:12 AM
Wait, you have a hitch in the back of the truck. What 60 to 80 lbs.

Unless you have an Anderson hitch I think you'll find most 5th-wheel hitches are in the 200-300 pound range.

I have a Reese 16K slider hitch, and when I tried to pick it up . . . I almost blew a nad! :eek:

EWG
05-10-2017, 11:13 AM
Your right. I took a wild guess on hitch weight since some can be removed easily, more or less. Again, that weight needs to be taken off the useful load. It could be just you and the dog going. :D

justafordguy
05-10-2017, 01:42 PM
. I am told the longer the truck the better the ride.

.


Not true in my case, my F250 short bed rides way better than my dually. ;)

danemayer
05-10-2017, 05:51 PM
Not true in my case, my F250 short bed rides way better than my dually. ;)

I think his comment about riding better might have been about a more stable towing experience. Without the trailer attached, your short bed probably does ride more comfortably.

dykesj11
05-11-2017, 12:41 AM
Not sure the length of the bed is as significant as the suspensions. As Dan mentions, without trailer, 3/4 tons (F250, 2500s) will always ride better than 1 ton DRWs (F350/F450, 3500s) which have significantly stiffer suspensions. However, I would guess with heavy trailers attached, the DRWs might provide a better ride given the the greater inertia of mass and suspension vs trailer motion (chucking, etc.).


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recumbent615
05-23-2017, 08:17 AM
Hitch is installed and we are ready to tow ( at least I thought I was ) untill I hooked up and found out that my GM Brake Controller does not work with Electric/Hydraulic systems... and I need to add a new part... so we search for the part and it is on back order .... somewhat frustrated. yes... Still searching for someone with it in stock - west coast company says they do on the web site but need them to open to ask and order...

I leave on Friday for the shakeout weekend ....

51899

JWalker
05-23-2017, 08:24 AM
Hitch is installed and we are ready to tow ( at least I thought I was ) untill I hooked up and found out that my GM Brake Controller does not work with Electric/Hydraulic systems... and I need to add a new part... so we search for the part and it is on back order .... somewhat frustrated. yes... Still searching for someone with it in stock - west coast company says they do on the web site but need them to open to ask and order...

I leave on Friday for the shakeout weekend ....

51899

Call Ron from Titan brakes. Trailer brake performance. I think I remember him saying something about that GM part. He might have one.

Bones
05-23-2017, 10:16 AM
ok can you try connecting a light to the blue wire and white ground to get the brake controller to see you have a trailer connected. This might get you going until you get the part.

porthole
05-24-2017, 02:26 PM
Hitch is installed and we are ready to tow ( at least I thought I was ) untill I hooked up and found out that my GM Brake Controller does not work with Electric/Hydraulic systems... and I need to add a new part... so we search for the part and it is on back order .... somewhat frustrated. yes... Still searching for someone with it in stock - west coast company says they do on the web site but need them to open to ask and order...

I leave on Friday for the shakeout weekend ....

51899


"If" I had a GMC, I would go right to the Tekonsha Prodigy P3 (https://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Controller/Tekonsha/90195.html?feed=npn&gclid=CjwKEAjw3pTJBRChgZ3e7s_YhAkSJAASG9VrrfRzaz1j nR4hJbc1zEvM45SkZehmt3PfbSDEP5PTpBoC3zDw_wcB) and not use the factory control.

jimandjean
05-24-2017, 03:25 PM
So I'm a Ford guy and owner two dual wheel - 2000 F350 diesel w 3.73 and a 2016 F450 w 4.30s.

I did have it to do over again and nothing would get me to tow w a single rear wheel. I've lost a rear tire at highway speed w the fiver in there. Didn't know it until my next fuel stop. I've always appreciated that safety margin since.

On my 4 speed power stroke 2000 with a 7800lb curb weight I got 17-19 mpg w a light tube. 11-13 pulling a 12000lb trailer

On my 450 I get 15-16 mpg w a curb weight of 9800lbs. Pulling a 20,000 trailer I get 9-10.

I love my new ford - it's a real sweet ride and the steeper rear end is definitely the right move. No gear hunting at all. 6th gear all day long pulling.


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recumbent615
05-24-2017, 09:35 PM
Hitch is installed and we are ready to tow ( at least I thought I was ) untill I hooked up and found out that my GM Brake Controller does not work with Electric/Hydraulic systems... and I need to add a new part... so we search for the part and it is on back order .... somewhat frustrated. yes... Still searching for someone with it in stock - west coast company says they do on the web site but need them to open to ask and order...

I leave on Friday for the shakeout weekend ....

51899


Well - I talked with the installer of the brakes from last year - and he provided a work around that works - I have brakes! The part that I need will be here before I leave for my 4 week camp-a-thon starting on the 4th. Duane you may be right but I will see how the factory system works with the disc brakes - and if they have issues I will install the P3. ( I will most likely keep the P2 from the 2500 )

Kevin

JohnD
05-25-2017, 12:19 AM
"If" I had a GMC, I would go right to the Prodigy Prodigy P3 (https://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Controller/Tekonsha/90195.html?feed=npn&gclid=CjwKEAjw3pTJBRChgZ3e7s_YhAkSJAASG9VrrfRzaz1j nR4hJbc1zEvM45SkZehmt3PfbSDEP5PTpBoC3zDw_wcB) and not use the factory control.

Plus, I'll bet that any decent trailer hitch shop (not an RV dealership) could get you up and running in a couple of hours . . .

If you were here in Denver, I know at least three shops that would have you with working brakes by the end of the day tomorrow!

JohnAndAsiza
08-20-2017, 01:53 PM
I have a 2009 2500HD Chevy Silverado, 6.6TD, Allison transmission, and crew cab. It tows our BH3055RL like its not even there, but we are upgrading to a BH3890SS. From what I can see, the new RV is still within the towing specs for my truck, but I could just be reading it all wrong. Anyone else tow a 5ver that size with a similar truck?

TravelTiger
08-20-2017, 02:38 PM
I have a 2009 2500HD Chevy Silverado, 6.6TD, Allison transmission, and crew cab. It tows our BH3055RL like its not even there, but we are upgrading to a BH3890SS. From what I can see, the new RV is still within the towing specs for my truck, but I could just be reading it all wrong. Anyone else tow a 5ver that size with a similar truck?

JohnAndAsiza,

There is a great resource to verify your tow vehicle capability. It was developed over many years by a Heartland Owner. It uses realistic formulas, and takes into consideration real-world usage. You have to do some of your own research to get the numbers it requests, but it does the calculations for you.

It will give you the information you desire that is accurate. Then you can determine if your town vehicle is safe. Do not rely on other people's opinions whether you are going to be safe or not.

The price of the app is minimal compared to its value. It can help you determine with certainty whether a new tow vehicle is in your future.

Www.rvtowcheck.com


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Nuclearcowboy
08-20-2017, 06:42 PM
I have a 2009 2500HD Chevy Silverado, 6.6TD, Allison transmission, and crew cab. It tows our BH3055RL like its not even there, but we are upgrading to a BH3890SS. From what I can see, the new RV is still within the towing specs for my truck, but I could just be reading it all wrong. Anyone else tow a 5ver that size with a similar truck?
One thing to keep in mind regarding tow vehicles is there is a difference between being able to pull the unit and having the proper towing vehicle. One might be able to easily pull a unit, but are the rear axles and springs sufficiently rated for the unit and is your ability to adequately stop with the unit within the capacity of your towing unit - lots of thing to look at regarding this. Dan has a great suggestion - use tried and proven resources to see if you are OK.

SNOKING
08-21-2017, 10:08 AM
PIN WEIGHT! That is the thing that most likely is going to be a problem. Heartland has not published a dry pin weight for that model, I would call Heartland and ask what the dry pin weight is going to be. We tow our 3575el that has a low 2435 dry pin weight and are pushing our 7K RAWR on our SRW RAM 3500.

If your truck has 17" tires (which I believe it does) that is an achilles heal, as they have a low weight rating around 3000 pounds which limits that rear axle to around 6000 pounds. You will also be well over the trucks GVWR(which many do without looking back)! We push our 11,700 GVWR close to its limit also.

BH3055RL specs. This is well matched to a 250/2500 truck.



Dry Weight (lbs/kg)
11076 / 5024.1


GVWR (lbs/kgs)
14000 / 6350.4


Hitch Weight (lbs/kgs)
1994 / 904.5



So I kinda think that model is in the dually category, but I think you know that, right? You could switch to 19.5" rims and tires, and bag it to handle the load, but that money would be better spent on a new TV.

Chris