2004 F250 & 2009 Sundance 2998RB

[michiganDSL]

Hello everyone,
I'm new to this forum, but have been a frequent visitor. I have a 04 F250 4x4 extended cab short box 3.73 LS axel. I'm new to the 5th wheel setup. We are moving from a TT to the FW. So, please be gentle on me. I'm haveing difficulty understanding on how to figure out the weight calculations for a 5th wheel. I need some help. My GCWR: 20,000, RAWR; 6,084, Max Loaded 5th wheel: 12,000, Max Ride height: 56-57inches. Do you guys see me haveing any difficulty with that 2998RB? Is to long of trailer? Is the pin weight to heavy? I'm thinking about adding the Air Lift 5000. I have looked at the Pullrite 18k superslide, Reese 18k Select Plus, and Trailer Saver hitches. Is a slide hitch really needed or can I get away with the fixed hitch. When driving and need to make a tight turn. Do you need the slider for that senario or is it just for campsite maneuverability.
I'm traveling with DW, 3 young kids, and a Shih-Poo(dog). I just want to tow safe. The TT weights were much easier to figure out. Also, I don't want to go overkill with a slider if it's not need. Thanks in advance
Michigandsl

 

[Ray LeTourneau]

Ryan, Welcome to the Heartland Forum. There are several discussion on slider hitches and I think the general consensus is they are not needed with Heartlands front cap design. The intent of the sliding hitch is mainly for maneuvering into tight spots and allows close to a 90 degree turn while backing up. The slider also allows more moving parts that add to the chucking you referred to in your other post. You should be within your weight limits with the 2998RB and your truck should manage it quite well. The empty hitch weight is listed at 1700# so loaded I would think you'll be under 2300#. As for what hitch to buy? You should be fine with a hitch rated at 16K. If you think in a few years you might get a bigger trailer it wouldn't hurt to go to 18K. We have a middle of the road Reese. Nothing fancy but it does have a bit of slop in the pin so we get some moderate chucking if the roads are really bad. Otherwise it's a capable hitch. Good Luck with your venture.

 

[truknutt]

I would agree with Ray's comments. With regards to pin weight, the only other thing I would do would be to weigh your un-hitched truck as if you were going on a trip (DW, Kids, Dog, fuel, with hitch installed if possible, etc) to get your baseline rear axle weight.

Ford's 2004 Towing Guide recommends 15% to 25% of total trailer weight for your pin weight.

Using 11,870 lbs for the Sundance equates to 1780.5 to 2960.5 lbs, so Ray was right on with his 2300 lbs (20% equals 2374 lbs).

 

[michiganDSL]

Thank You guys for all your information. However, I have a question. For example: If my truck weighs in at 7,000lb. + 2,374= 9,374. My concern is that my GVWR is 8,800lb. That setup would put me 574lb over my GVWR if I'm doing it correctly. Also, my GCWR would be 9,374 + 11,870= 18,870lb. That would put me 1,130 under for my GCWR. Can I safely tow being over on GVWR, but under on GCWR. Thanks for being patient with me. I just want to do the right thing for my family and the people who will be driving around me.

 

[truknutt]

MichiganDSL,

I applaud your safety concerns and thanks for caring about those of us traveling around you!

It appears that you've got the math part correct. Now comes what I refer to as "creative trailer packing"!

You can slide some of that pin weight towards the rear of the Sundance (low side of the safe scale is 15% or 1780 lbs). This is all based on you having a fully maxed out Sundance in tow; as its weight decreases so should your pin weight.

OR

You can lighten your truck's weight somehow...wife, kids, just not the dog.

P.S. On second thought forget that last suggestion..it's just not worth it!

 

[BobSue]

Michigandsl

I believe you have the math correct. Surprising isn't it?

I bought my F-250 first then bought my BH 3055.

When I weighed the packed unit I was surprised to find myself overloaded on the rear axle, not the front axle, not the total weight?

Doesn't make sense to me but that is what it weighed out.

I think you will be surprised how much "stuff" you end up bringing with you and how much it weighs and how much of that weight ends up on the truck pin. I tried to cut as much as possible and I have huge amounts of space left in the basement but am still overloaded.

Bottom line, I wish I had bought a 350 instead. This would give me room to add nice to have things in the basement and give me more comfort factor in not being overloaded.

I believe the trailer you are looking at is even heavier than mine so I caution you to look closely at the numbers.

Regarding the slider hitch; I have the Pullrite Superslide. I believe I have used that additional room every time I back into my driveway at home. I don't believe I have ever needed it any other time. My reasoning was I had a $50K trailer hitched to a $50K truck with me and loved ones. Did I want to risk all that by saving a few hundred dollars on a hitch? That is the only thing holding it all together and keeping things stable.

Personally I decided it was too critical to skrimp and went top end.

If I was starting all over and had all the money I wanted; I would go with a 350 or 450 with a long bed and a top end fixed slider.

Some day I hope to get smart enough to know every thing I need to know before I make a decision. ( I probably won't live that long)

Good Luck and welcome to the family.

 

[michiganDSL]

I just made an appointment today to have the 18k pullrite superglide and the Ride-Rite air helper springs. I know the Ride-Rite will help on towing level, but will it help me with my TV rear axel weights. If it doesn't then I'm over by 534lb GVWR. The RAWR is 6,084lb. Then if my pin is 2,300 that gives me 3,784lb left over. How does the Ride-Rite fit into the equeation? There supposed to give upto 5,000lb of additional payload. Everyone's information has been very helpfull and informative.

thankx, michigandsl

 

[jnbhobe]

Michigandsl; First let me say none of this makes you legal !! In 2005 your gvw would be 10,000lbs. Ford didn't change anything really.Your rawr of 6084lbs is your tires are rated at 3042lbs ea. at 80lbs.Some 265-75-16 tires are rated at 3415lbs firestone ,michlin, dayton ,bridgstone that might help with actual wright.The air bags will let you keep your truck level. after that you'll have to redistribute your weight. Thats all I have time for right now. I'll try to give you more info later or PM me. I had this problem on my company truck JON

 

[Rmcgrath53]

Hello Michigandls
I have the same sundance exept no rear bath just storage. Which I have pretty loaded up with a ladder and a bunch of other things. I just weighed my rig a few weeks ago and found my truck was 7550 lbs. The pin weight was 2500 lbs and my rig, and tow vehical ,was 19,260lbs included me and son AND HITCH AND SOME FIRE WOOD AND A FULL TANK OF GAS. Now we were fully loaded with clothes and a 41 lb generater in the front storage. My wife wasnt included in the weight so to be right we would have to add 110 lbs for her.I think that I am pretty close to the limits of my truck. That is why I bought the sundance instead of a bigger trailer.
Ron

 

[jmgratz]

Hello Michigandls
I have the same sundance exept no rear bath just storage. Which I have pretty loaded up with a ladder and a bunch of other things. I just weighed my rig a few weeks ago and found my truck was 7550 lbs. The pin weight was 2500 lbs and my rig, and tow vehical ,was 19,260lbs included me and son AND HITCH AND SOME FIRE WOOD AND A FULL TANK OF GAS. Now we were fully loaded with clothes and a 41 lb generater in the front storage. My wife wasnt included in the weight so to be right we would have to add 110 lbs for her.I think that I am pretty close to the limits of my truck. That is why I bought the sundance instead of a bigger trailer.
Ron

I don't want to start anything, but I read an article in Trailer Life I think it was about transporting your firewood with you. That article brought up a point I had never thought about. When you transport firewood you not only transport additional weight you don't need but you run the risk of introducing disease to the wooded population where you travel. I had never thought of this but the article suggested you get the firewood at your destination to prevent the possibility of spreading some sort of plant disease. Just thought I would mention that.

 

[michiganDSL]

Does anyone know what the bed rail clearance is on a 2998RB with a 18k Pullrite SG? I didn't realize the Pullrite SG doesn't have a height adjustment. Thanks

 

[jnbhobe]

I can't measure now but I have 6 to 8 in.with my setup, super glide and F-350, Bighorn 3370.Remember you have a few inches adjustment at the pin box. New chevys have a higher bed sides than classic chevys, ford, and dodge. JON

 

[michiganDSL]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I just weight my 2004 F250 SB tonight, but it just make me more confused I had full tanks, me , and the pullrite SG in the truck. It's total weight was 7480lb. The steer axle was 4380 and drive axle was 3100lb. Know the confusing part. My axle is rated at 6084lb, but my tires are rated at 3450lb @80psi. So, my tires give me 6900lb. (6900-6084=818lb) So, do I add the 818lb to the gvwr which would be (8800+818=9618lb). So, to figure out pin wgt. I take 12000lb max trailer wgt x 20%= 2400lb max pin wgt. So, to figure out GVWR of truck I take 7480+2400= 9880lb. That puts me 262lb over my GVWR. However, trucks max GCVWR is 20,000lb. (7480lb+12000lb=19480lb) That gives me a excess of 520lb. Also, I have the ride rite air bags installed. I would like to know if it is O.K. to tow within these numbers because I'm supposed to take delievery of the 2998RB tomorrow. I know a F450 would be much better, but my wallet does not allow for it yet. Thanks in advance

 

[cookie]

michiganDSL, your rear axle weight rating at 6048 is most likely based on the origional tire size of the truck, 245's. It sounds like you now have 265's on it.That will boost your rear axle weight rating up to your stated 6900 lb with the tires you have. You can not figure out your pin weight. You have to weigh the truck alone, then reweigh the truck with your trailer hitched, then find the difference and that is your actual pin weight. I think that the 20% that you are using is the recomended pin weight for the best stability when towing. I believe the recomendation is between 15to 25% of your trailer weight. So the only way to know weights is to go to a scale. Period. All that said, everybody has their own theory on weight capacities. I think you are good to go. Make sure your rear tires are inflated to max PSI. If your truck rides nose high get some air bags. Be sure your trailer tows level. Have fun.
Peace
Dave

 

[jnbhobe]

Here is my take on this,rear axel rated 6084lbs. truck comes with 235-85-R16 LR-E tires.3042lbs@80lbs. I'll bet you've got 265-75-R16 LR-E tires 3415lbs@80lbs. Yes it does give you more axel capacity and I've done it myself (good move).But no mater what you do tires,springs,air bags, GVW is 8800lbs.And thats the max weight no matter what.All that said BUY the Sundance and go have fun!!Your truck will work just fine.JON

 

[michiganDSL]

Thanks everyone, I feel more comfortable know with our decision to purchase the Sundance. I'll just keep it at 60mph, watch the fuel gauge go down, watch the tranny temp rise, listen to the kids scream, and remember to just have fun enjoying this great country.