A tale of an axle problem

[MountainTop]

Last fall we made a long loop from our home in GA to the west coast and were on the return leg through the southwest when we had a problem that kept us grounded in Deming, NM for 3 weeks. Maybe our experience will help someone else avoid a similar issue. When we were visiting in Phoenix we discovered that the bearings had gone out on one trailer tire. My husband has replaced auto bearings before, so he took on this job. We continued on to Tucson for another stop and then began a long multi-day haul to the TX gulf coast. Lucky for us we stopped for gas along I-10 east of Deming. And there I discovered grease all over the wheel that was repaired (or so we thought) back in Phoenix. Not only that, but as we pulled away from the pump we could see the tire wobbling. Of course, we didn't get back on the road, called Good Sam for help, and after many hours, 1 mobile mechanic who couldn't help, a tow truck without proper equipment to get us on the flatbed, and another mobile mechanic (plus leaving it at the gas station overnight), we finally got it to a repair shop in Deming. It turns out the wheel was almost "welded" to the spindle at the end of the axle by heat generated as the bearings blew out and we continue traveling, unaware until we stopped for gas. The only safe repair meant replacing the axle. But after much effort the owner told us he couldn't find an axle anywhere in the US (because the MPG is out of production) and one would have to be manufactured in Indiana, then shipped to Deming. It was made in 1 week but took another 2 weeks to get to the shop. And then within 1 day it was repaired and we continued home, missing Thanksgiving with our family and a bundle of money too.

Word to the wise: Check your wheels every time you gas up. Let a pro replace the bearings if needed. Friends with an rPod had a very similar situation, but they caught it early and were able to get a repair to the spindle before it was damage beyond repair.

 

[LBR]

There is an overwhelming number of members here with heavy 5vers that focus on some main points in this regard....have excellent tires (Sailuns, Goodyears), stay 65 mph max, install TPMS systems, etc. This is all great stuff, but I don't remember reading one post recently by someone who has the ritual I have developed.....I shoot all rotors, drums, calipers, and HUBS with an infrared gun every couple of hours and make mental notes of an impending trend of excessive heat at any given component....Takes me 2 minutes.

While a shot in the dark failure is always around the next corner for us all, I believe in trending just like following the stock market....If one component temperature starts elevating over a long haul, time to investigate before.........

 

[JohnDar]

There is an overwhelming number of members here with heavy 5vers that focus on some main points in this regard....have excellent tires (Sailuns, Goodyears), stay 65 mph max, install TPMS systems, etc. This is all great stuff, but I don't remember reading one post recently by someone who has the ritual I have developed.....I shoot all rotors, drums, calipers, and HUBS with an infrared gun every couple of hours and make mental notes of an impending trend of excessive heat at any given component....Takes me 2 minutes.

While a shot in the dark failure is always around the next corner for us all, I believe in trending just like following the stock market....If one component temperature starts elevating over a long haul, time to investigate before.........

Actually, I've been known to do that at rest stops.


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[danemayer]

I don't know about Lippert axles, but Dexter makes axles to order. No axles are kept in stock. So if you ever need an axle, it can take 3 weeks - a lot of that being shipping time. It's faster if you pay for expedited shipping, but extremely expensive to ship an axle by air. I had an axle problem last fall in Colorado Springs and the local parts shop used by all the dealers quoted 6 weeks to get a new axle.

 

[Titanguy]

I don't know about Lippert axles, but Dexter makes axles to order. No axles are kept in stock. So if you ever need an axle, it can take 3 weeks - a lot of that being shipping time. It's faster if you pay for expedited shipping, but extremely expensive to ship an axle by air. I had an axle problem last fall in Colorado Springs and the local parts shop used by all the dealers quoted 6 weeks to get a new axle.

First thing when you have an axle problem is to take a picture of the mfg. tag on the axle. All of your axle dimensions are on there (in code) to determine exactly what you have. As I buy axles from Dexter, I can assure you that within 2 weeks you can get an axle anywhere in the country at a reasonable price. We shipped 2 - 8k axles to the Las Vegas Rally and the price was $325 each including freight. The key to a quick turn around on axles is to have that mfg. axle tag available when you call your dealer or repair shop.

 

[JohnD]

We had a similar issue when traveling through Phoenix two years ago with our previous Heartland Trail Runner.

A passing motorist flagged us down and pointed at the trailer tires, and as I pulled off at the next exit I saw the smoke rolling out from under the trailer.

Like yours, the brake and spindle assembly was destroyed.

We were able to limp about a mile away to Sun City RV and we got the same story . . . no axles available in the area and two or three weeks to get one there.

We spent the night at an RV park right next door and the next morning I had the trailer parked at their front door when they opened at 8 a.m..


Look closely at the front tire on the trailer and you can see it tilted in at the top

They pulled the axle and sent it to a local axle shop, where they cut it in half and welded another half to it with a brand new spindle and they had us on our way by 6 p.m.!


Note the weld in the center of the axle, second shot us leaving Sun City RV to finish our trip!

Cost us $1000 for this bandaid fix, but it did allow us to finish our trip and get home.

Ended up replacing both axles when we got home, then traded off the Trail Runner a week later.

Now we have one axle on our new Prowler that is in need of repair or replacement, but not due to the wheel bearings.

The repair shop here in Denver that will be doing the fix on our Prowler has a huge selection of trailer axles in stock.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Any major city can handle an axle problem. An industrial wheel and axle repair company in a major city can replace a spindle in an axle tube in about 20 minutes, and install a new bearing set to boot. It is unusual to need the entire axle assembly just because you have damaged the spindle. If you have to air freight something, just air freight the spindle. It's a lot cheaper, and a lot faster.

I too have an infrared temp gauge, and I shoot everything with it. Tires, wheels, hubs, radiator. I highly recommend it.

 

[BigGuy82]

It seems to me that there is a very high incidence of axle failures that get discussed here. Of course, all mechanical parts are subject to fail, but something as critical as an axle/spindle should be extremely robust and these failures should be very rare. So, if you keep your trailer within the specified weight, keep your speed reasonable (with a coach hooked up, I'm a 65 guy), get your bearings repacked every 10K miles, maintain correct tire pressure and replace the bearings and races at the very first sign of wear, these failures should be extremely rare. They're not as rare as they should be if you read this and other forums and I suspect a lot of it probably has to do with maintenance.

Is there an actual maintenance chart provided by Heartland that encapsulates all of the recommended maitenance procedures and the time/mileage period when those procedures must occur? I don't mean having the information buried in a thick portfolio that contains operator manuals for every different item in the coach. Many of us are experienced and learned this stuff over time, but many new owners are casual RV'ers who just want to have fun with the family, so rightly or wrongly, they never get the message on the fine points. When you buy a car or truck, every owner's manual I have ever seen conatins a simple maintenance chart. I have never seen one for an RV and yes, you can make one yourself but again, that relies on the owner to ferret out this information.

To recap, I have owned 3 RV's (two different brands) and have never seen a comprehensive maitenance chart and more importantly, when I took delivery of those units, none of the dealers ever covered detailed maintenance procedures. The newbie, just picks up his coach and drives away to enjoy it. It's up to the owner to know this stuff, but there is absolutely nothing that says that the RV manufacturer can't make it easier for the customer to do it right.

 

[danemayer]

Is there an actual maintenance chart provided by Heartland that encapsulates all of the recommended maitenance procedures and the time/mileage period when those procedures must occur? I don't mean having the information buried in a thick portfolio that contains operator manuals for every different item in the coach. Many of us are experienced and learned this stuff over time, but many new owners are casual RV'ers who just want to have fun with the family, so rightly or wrongly, they never get the message on the fine points. When you buy a car or truck, every owner's manual I have ever seen conatins a simple maintenance chart. I have never seen one for an RV and yes, you can make one yourself but again, that relies on the owner to ferret out this information.

To recap, I have owned 3 RV's (two different brands) and have never seen a comprehensive maitenance chart and more importantly, when I took delivery of those units, none of the dealers ever covered detailed maintenance procedures. The newbie, just picks up his coach and drives away to enjoy it. It's up to the owner to know this stuff, but there is absolutely nothing that says that the RV manufacturer can't make it easier for the customer to do it right.

BigGuy,

Of course there's a maintenance chart. It's in the trailer manual that Heartland supplied with your trailer. If you can't find yours, you can download a copy of the 2015 manual at http://www.heartlandrvs.com/resources/utilities-menu/owners-manuals
It's on pages 18-19 with tables on 20-21 to keep your own records. And if you read the entire manual, you'll find other important information is included.

 

[BigGuy82]

BigGuy,

Of course there's a maintenance chart. It's in the trailer manual that Heartland supplied with your trailer. If you can't find yours, you can download a copy of the 2015 manual at http://www.heartlandrvs.com/resources/utilities-menu/owners-manuals
It's on pages 18-19 with tables on 20-21 to keep your own records. And if you read the entire manual, you'll find other important information is included.

Dan,

Thanks for the reply. Yep - I saw that, but it could be more detailed. Example: Wheel bearings & Cups - every 6 months and yearly. Do what? Look at them, shake the wheel, measure the wheel temp, pull the wheel, grease the bearings? What if you've got EZ Lube or Never Lube hubs? And yes, that info is in there also but not where it's easy to find. Yes, you and I know what that means, but my point is the novice may not, hence he doesn't do it or does something incorrectly and viola! Axle problem. This chart is more of a checklist and it is handy but it's weak. The last column says "as required by manufacturer" - so how many are going to go find that manual and read it? My contention is that a lot of problems are caused by folks that don't eat, breath and sleep RV's - they're just folks out for family fun exactly like all of the advertising they saw with smiling families camping. They may read the manual but are not likely to grasp or remember everything - in fact 10%-20% is about the norm and I think a more detailed checklist is a good idea, especially if accompanied by service reminders as mentioned below. At least that's my opinion.

And yes, of course I read the manual (I didn't get one with the coach - I had to download it - who knows why). By the way, Ford sends me an email when my service is due and with helpful reminders (and I read that manual also) - be nice if Heartland did that (i.e. - "winters on the way - winterize" or "your coach is 6 months old - checked the bearings lately?" or "time for a brake checkup - see your dealer"). That's smart, safe, financially good for business and great customer service. I've heard nothing proactively from Heartland since I bought my coach - have you? In case you haven't guessed, I don't think the RV industry as a whole is very good with customer service - in my opinion, they could learn a lot (like Detroit did in the '70's) so they should probably listen. Now, all my maintenance stuff is on my calendar anyway, including such minutiae as draining the air horn compressor every month - I'm a detail person. See, my philosphy is there's always room for improvement and there are no sacred cows.

This is off the axle topic, so move it if you wish.

Safe Travels

 

[JohnD]

We've owned two brand new RV's in the last four years . . . both Heartland products.

We've had axle problems on both with under 5000 miles on each of the RV's.

They just don't build them like they used to.

Our old 1978 Coachman that we owned for 15 years never had any of the kinds of issues that pop up today.

And we never once worried about tires or bearings or axles or leaks or fires or . . .

 

[BigGuy82]

We've owned two brand new RV's in the last four years . . . both Heartland products.

We've had axle problems on both with under 5000 miles on each of the RV's.

Dexter or Lippert?


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[JohnD]

Dexter or Lippert?


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Dexter . . .

 

[BigGuy82]

Dexter . . .

Yeah, I'm picking up a pattern here. What exactly went wrong? I've got 6K Dexter's on my coach and I want to know what to look out for. I do overkill and have the bearings serviced about every 5K and I watch the tires very closely (temp & pressure). I've got one that consistently reads 5 to 10 degrees higher and I asked the dealer to check it thoroughly and I can't find anything either. I wonder if it's the spindle and not the tire. Could also be the sensor,

Thanks

 

[danemayer]

Dan,

Thanks for the reply. Yep - I saw that, but it could be more detailed. Example: Wheel bearings & Cups - every 6 months and yearly. Do what? Look at them, shake the wheel, measure the wheel temp, pull the wheel, grease the bearings? What if you've got EZ Lube or Never Lube hubs? And yes, that info is in there also but not where it's easy to find. Yes, you and I know what that means, but my point is the novice may not, hence he doesn't do it or does something incorrectly and viola! Axle problem. This chart is more of a checklist and it is handy but it's weak. The last column says "as required by manufacturer" - so how many are going to go find that manual and read it? My contention is that a lot of problems are caused by folks that don't eat, breath and sleep RV's - they're just folks out for family fun exactly like all of the advertising they saw with smiling families camping. They may read the manual but are not likely to grasp or remember everything - in fact 10%-20% is about the norm and I think a more detailed checklist is a good idea, especially if accompanied by service reminders as mentioned below. At least that's my opinion.

And yes, of course I read the manual (I didn't get one with the coach - I had to download it - who knows why). By the way, Ford sends me an email when my service is due and with helpful reminders (and I read that manual also) - be nice if Heartland did that (i.e. - "winters on the way - winterize" or "your coach is 6 months old - checked the bearings lately?" or "time for a brake checkup - see your dealer"). That's smart, safe, financially good for business and great customer service. I've heard nothing proactively from Heartland since I bought my coach - have you? In case you haven't guessed, I don't think the RV industry as a whole is very good with customer service - in my opinion, they could learn a lot (like Detroit did in the '70's) so they should probably listen. Now, all my maintenance stuff is on my calendar anyway, including such minutiae as draining the air horn compressor every month - I'm a detail person. See, my philosphy is there's always room for improvement and there are no sacred cows.

This is off the axle topic, so move it if you wish.

Safe Travels

I think if a novice doesn't understand how to do the service checklist items, it's incumbent on him to either get educated or to pay someone to do it for him. I wouldn't expect any RV manufacturer to provide detailed instructions on bearing maintenance. My opinion is that too many things can go wrong while taking things apart to pack bearings. It's also easy to make mistakes if you're new at it. I think it would be very foolish of Heartland or any manufacturer to go that direction.

Do you need a reminder that it's time to winterize? Btw, are you in North Dakota today or south Florida?

I agree that RV manufacturers could do a better job on manuals. But I also understand why they don't. I've worked in a publications dep't and I'm pretty sure that given the number of models and floor plans that Heartland has, and the rate of change, they could spend an enormous amount of money writing manuals. My estimate would be easily $2M/year. And they would get zero payback because not one person would make a purchase decision based on what the manuals look like. For one thing you don't even see them until you take delivery. So that would be $2M/year lost profit. And worst of all, a very small percentage of owners actually read manuals.

Axle failures - mine was probably caused by a brake failure overheating the bearings. And based on what's been posted, I'd say the majority of axle failures are caused by bearing failure. And that mostly due to poor maintenance. There have been some where the axle loses camber, but if you can find a facility, that can probably be corrected without replacement. Then there are some caused by hitting curbs, or bridge joints, or who knows what where the spindle gets bent. I suppose it's possible that moving to higher capacity parts at higher cost might reduce the number of failures. Me - I just got to the point of of deciding to go with Independent Suspension in place of the axles. Many others have as well. So instead of asking for every trailer to come with more expensive parts, we did that on our own.

 

[BigGuy82]

I think if a novice doesn't understand how to do the service checklist items, it's incumbent on him to either get educated or to pay someone to do it for him. I wouldn't expect any RV manufacturer to provide detailed instructions on bearing maintenance. My opinion is that too many things can go wrong while taking things apart to pack bearings. It's also easy to make mistakes if you're new at it. I think it would be very foolish of Heartland or any manufacturer to go that direction.

Do you need a reminder that it's time to winterize? Btw, are you in North Dakota today or south Florida?

I agree that RV manufacturers could do a better job on manuals. But I also understand why they don't. I've worked in a publications dep't and I'm pretty sure that given the number of models and floor plans that Heartland has, and the rate of change, they could spend an enormous amount of money writing manuals. My estimate would be easily $2M/year. And they would get zero payback because not one person would make a purchase decision based on what the manuals look like. For one thing you don't even see them until you take delivery. So that would be $2M/year lost profit. And worst of all, a very small percentage of owners actually read manuals.

Axle failures - mine was probably caused by a brake failure overheating the bearings. And based on what's been posted, I'd say the majority of axle failures are caused by bearing failure. And that mostly due to poor maintenance. There have been some where the axle loses camber, but if you can find a facility, that can probably be corrected without replacement. Then there are some caused by hitting curbs, or bridge joints, or who knows what where the spindle gets bent. I suppose it's possible that moving to higher capacity parts at higher cost might reduce the number of failures. Me - I just got to the point of of deciding to go with Independent Suspension in place of the axles. Many others have as well. So instead of asking for every trailer to come with more expensive parts, we did that on our own.

Why would I want an independent suspension, who makes it and what does it cost?

 

[danemayer]

Why would I want an independent suspension, who makes it and what does it cost?

MorRyde makes it. You can read about it here. There's usually a special associated with the North American Rally. Last fall's special was $2800 for 7K and $3300 for 8K. The rally special combined price for Kodiak Disc Brakes and 8K Independent Suspension was $5900.

 

[BigGuy82]

MorRyde makes it. You can read about it here. There's usually a special associated with the North American Rally. Last fall's special was $2800 for 7K and $3300 for 8K. The rally special combined price for Kodiak Disc Brakes and 8K Independent Suspension was $5900.

Thanks. If I decide to go with this, I'll wait until the rally. That's a good price considering an installed disc brake upgrade is $2,700 and the suspension is $3,300. That's $6,000, so it looks like installation is better than free. Considering what it takes to replace this (torch cutting, welding, alignment) that's a deal.

Alternative 2 is to buy a new coach that has all of this stuff. Still thinking about it - possibly a toy hauler.

 

[brianlajoie]

Thanks. If I decide to go with this, I'll wait until the rally. That's a good price considering an installed disc brake upgrade is $2,700 and the suspension is $3,300. That's $6,000, so it looks like installation is better than free. Considering what it takes to replace this (torch cutting, welding, alignment) that's a deal.

If you wait until the rally, you may not be able to get what you want. I have an appointment right before the rally for IS and disc brake installation. There are a lot of trailers there at that time of year and Moryde has only a few bays to work with.

 

[ksucats]

I might add that Never-Lube does not mean never-Fails - I had Lippert Nev-R-Lube hubs and bearings on my previous coach. Went in to get new tires and one of the wheels just about fell off; no extra heat, no wobble that we knew of. Bearing did not fall apart in our hand, but the insides were nothing but black soot so it had to get very warm. Long story short, Lippert took care of two new axles (with regular greased bearings) and I covered the labor - this after five plus years on the road and annual maintenance (we never exceeded 7K miles per year).

So, (rhetorically) now I'm wondering what mileage I should have the bearings done at (I don't have the capability of doing them myself). Do I go or every 6 months, annually, "as required by manufacturer (all three are checked in the users manual, and which one takes precedence); or do I go by miles which then begs the question of at what mileage (5K, 6 K, 12K miles) do I have them checked and serviced at? This mileage issue comes up in various on-line posts and threads, seems to be several times a year . So Really what is the time frame. I'm not an expert by any means but I have had a couple of different coaches, plus worked for various Tire companies in their retail stores over my life time, and I'm confused. How can I expect a neophyte to know this stuff.

By the way I have lived, so far, under the annual repack rule, check the heat at most rest stops / stops for the day, and keep my tires close to the max shown on the tire side (never have had the pleasure of being at a rally where the weight folks were present).