A tale of an axle problem

[danemayer]

So, now I'm wondering what mileage I should have the bearings done at (I don't have the capability of doing them myself). Do I go or every 6 months, annually, "as required by manufacturer (all three are checked in the users manual,)

Heartland and Dexter both used to say 12,000 miles or 12 months whichever comes first. Don't know when Heartland changed. The Dexter Service Manual still says 12,000 or 12 for bearings.

 

[ksucats]

Dan: Thanks. I'm actually a bit past my year now - late trips to see Mother-In-Law kept the coach in use. Need to get the bearings done here before any more long trips.

 

[BigGuy82]

I might add that Never-Lube does not mean never-Fails - I had Lippert Nev-R-Lube hubs and bearings on my previous coach. Went in to get new tires and one of the wheels just about fell off; no extra heat, no wobble that we knew of. Bearing did not fall apart in our hand, but the insides were nothing but black soot so it had to get very warm. Long story short, Lippert took care of two new axles (with regular greased bearings) and I covered the labor - this after five plus years on the road and annual maintenance (we never exceeded 7K miles per year).

So, (rhetorically) now I'm wondering what mileage I should have the bearings done at (I don't have the capability of doing them myself). Do I go or every 6 months, annually, "as required by manufacturer (all three are checked in the users manual, and which one takes precedence); or do I go by miles which then begs the question of at what mileage (5K, 6 K, 12K miles) do I have them checked and serviced at? This mileage issue comes up in various on-line posts and threads, seems to be several times a year . So Really what is the time frame. I'm not an expert by any means but I have had a couple of different coaches, plus worked for various Tire companies in their retail stores over my life time, and I'm confused. How can I expect a neophyte to know this stuff.

By the way I have lived, so far, under the annual repack rule, check the heat at most rest stops / stops for the day, and keep my tires close to the max shown on the tire side (never have had the pleasure of being at a rally where the weight folks were present).

Which was exactly my point in earlier posts - not enough guidance from the manufacturer for non-"professional" RV'ers. Personally, I don't go by time. I try to get my bearings done at around 5k miles. My personal opinion is that RV axles/spindles just are not robust enough. Having to pack bearings every 5 to 10k (or annually) on ANY vehicle is just ridiculous, but in the world of RV'ing, it's the norm. These axles are just not robust enough. It's not like these things weigh 80k like a semi - you're just looking at under 20k. Just the way it is and if you don't do it, your asking for trouble.

You'll get lots of advice here. This is just my way. Just remember the old saw - "better safe tan sorry".


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[danemayer]

For those who want more information, here's a link. The third document in the folder has quite a bit of detail. I'd suggest using it with discretion because not everything is a substitute for hands-on training.

And if you'd like even more, Dexter and Lippert have a wealth of information their respective websites.

 

[Mrsfish]

I'm going to jump in here for some really simple, but probably dumb questions. Education is power and I'd like to know better how things work on our rig. So here goes....is there a difference between "never lube" whatever and bearings that need repacking annually (or 5k miles, or whatever)? Are they even talking about the same animal- bearings?

 

[danemayer]

I'm going to jump in here for some really simple, but probably dumb questions. Education is power and I'd like to know better how things work on our rig. So here goes....is there a difference between "never lube" whatever and bearings that need repacking annually (or 5k miles, or whatever)? Are they even talking about the same animal- bearings?

Ann,

"Never Lube" uses a different set of parts for the bearings and surrounding assembly. I'm not sure how many people have confidence in them.

 

[Jim.Allison]

I'm going to jump in here for some really simple, but probably dumb questions. Education is power and I'd like to know better how things work on our rig. So here goes....is there a difference between "never lube" whatever and bearings that need repacking annually (or 5k miles, or whatever)? Are they even talking about the same animal- bearings?

I used to sell "lube for life" industrial bearings. "neverlube" is a spinoff of this concept. In my case the only difference between an industrial "lube for life" pillow block bearing is that there was no grease zerk with which to lube it, otherwise the bearing unit was the same down to the little hole and grease ring that allowed the transport of grease from the zerk.

IMHO the best "all around" bearing lube system is the EZ lube. The hand packers can hand pack them if they want, and others can just follow Dexters lubrication instructions concerning the EZ Lube method. Both methods should provide satisfactory life. However the hand packers have one distinct advantage in that they get to clean, inspect, and adjust their bearings where the EZ lube users do not get that opportunity to do that unless they do some routine disassembly throughout the life of the bearing. Personally I use the EZ lube feature. I routinely lube each axle with a few pumps of my grease gun before moving the rig. In this manner I get fresh grease moving through the system on a consistent basis.

NEVER let anyone near a EZ lube system with a pneumatic grease machine. The resulting blown seals will result in extreme bearing and hub problems.

 

[Mrsfish]

I used to sell "lube for life" industrial bearings. "neverlube" is a spinoff of this concept. In my case the only difference between an industrial "lube for life" pillow block bearing is that there was no grease zerk with which to lube it, otherwise the bearing unit was the same down to the little hole and grease ring that allowed the transport of grease from the zerk.

IMHO the best "all around" bearing lube system is the EZ lube. The hand packers can hand pack them if they want, and others can just follow Dexters lubrication instructions concerning the EZ Lube method. Both methods should provide satisfactory life. However the hand packers have one distinct advantage in that they get to clean, inspect, and adjust their bearings where the EZ lube users do not get that opportunity to do that unless they do some routine disassembly throughout the life of the bearing. Personally I use the EZ lube feature. I routinely lube each axle with a few pumps of my grease gun before moving the rig. In this manner I get fresh grease moving through the system on a consistent basis.

NEVER let anyone near a EZ lube system with a pneumatic grease machine. The resulting blown seals will result in extreme bearing and hub problems.

whats the difference between EZ lube with its zert and NevRLube? And I'm safe to assume that this whole topic IS about bearings?

 

[BigGuy82]

I'm going to jump in here for some really simple, but probably dumb questions. Education is power and I'd like to know better how things work on our rig. So here goes....is there a difference between "never lube" whatever and bearings that need repacking annually (or 5k miles, or whatever)? Are they even talking about the same animal- bearings?

Both are bearings and their job is to reduce friction, permitting the wheels to turn easily without excessive friction that causes heat build up. Even though they do the same job, they are different.

Never Lube bearings are a sealed system and don't require additional lubrication (re-packing with grease). I've never had them so I don't know how well they work but I did have a couple of recommendations to avoid them when I switch my coach over to disc brakes. I'm sure others will comment.

I have EZ Lube bearings which can be greased through a grease fitting at the end if the hub. I'm not a believer in that system, so I still have the bearings removed and re-packed regularly. Re-packing involves removing the wheel, pulling the inner and outer bearings, cleaning them completely, packing them tightly with a high quality wheel bearing grease and replacing the grease seals. Even if you use the grease fittings, you should pull the wheels annually for re-packing. Also, if you use this method, be sure that you don't mix grease types - use the same for re-packing and for use with the fittings - they do not mix well.

There are also bearing systems that lubricate with an oil bath. Stay away from these - if they leak (and they do), you can quickly destroy an axle.

Do not add Bearing Buddy's to the wheels so you can grease hubs with a grease gun if you don't have one of the above systems. These are designed to push water saturated grease out from the bearings and are intended for boat trailers.

My personal opinion is that conventional bearing systems that require grease packing are superior to the other types.

 

[Mrsfish]

Ann,

"Never Lube" uses a different set of parts for the bearings and surrounding assembly. I'm not sure how many people have confidence in them.

dan - this question is pertinent as we were just discussing have our bearings done. Coincidently yesterday I was going through some old rv paperwork and came across the Mohryde receipt for our IS system and the disc brakes. They referred on the receipt to NevRLube assembly, the Kodak brakes, the parts to go with them and the labor. No mention of the IS system yet the total receipt is correct. I'm trying to figure out if I really got NevRLube bearings or if they mislabeled the IS system.. but if I don't even know what I'm talking about I won't understand what they tell me when I call to inquire.

- - - Updated - - -

Both are bearings and their job is to reduce friction, permitting the wheels to turn easily without excessive friction that causes heat build up. Even though they do the same job, they are different.

Never Lube bearings are a sealed system and don't require additional lubrication (re-packing with grease). I've never had them so I don't know how well they work but I did have a couple of recommendations to avoid them when I switch my coach over to disc brakes. I'm sure others will comment.

I have EZ Lube bearings which can be greased through a grease fitting at the end if the hub. I'm not a believer in that system, so I still have the bearings removed and re-packed regularly. Re-packing involves removing the wheel, pulling the inner and outer bearings, cleaning them completely, packing them tightly with a high quality wheel bearing grease and replacing the grease seals. Even if you use the grease fittings, you should pull the wheels annually for re-packing. Also, if you use this method, be sure that you don't mix grease types - use the same for re-packing and for use with the fittings - they do not mix well.

There are also bearing systems that lubricate with an oil bath. Stay away from these - if they leak (and they do), you can quickly destroy an axle.

Do not add Bearing Buddy's to the wheels so you can grease hubs with a grease gun if you don't have one of the above systems. These are designed to push water saturated grease out from the bearings and are intended for boat trailers.

My personal opinion is that conventional bearing systems that require grease packing are superior to the other types.

thank you...and as a side question. Assuming I DO have NevRLube bearings, is it possible to replace/convert them to traditional?

 

[BigGuy82]

dan - this question is pertinent as we were just discussing have our bearings done. Coincidently yesterday I was going through some old rv paperwork and came across the Mohryde receipt for our IS system and the disc brakes. They referred on the receipt to NevRLube assembly, the Kodak brakes, the parts to go with them and the labor. No mention of the IS system yet the total receipt is correct. I'm trying to figure out if I really got NevRLube bearings or if they mislabeled the IS system.. but if I don't even know what I'm talking about I won't understand what they tell me when I call to inquire.

- - - Updated - - -



thank you...and as a side question. Assuming I DO have NevRLube bearings, is it possible to replace/convert them to traditional?

I'd wait until you hear from others who have had them. Also, I don't believe the Never Lube hubs are compatible with grease systems. I don't think Heartland uses these but I could be wrong. There should be stickers on the fenders that name the system you have.

scratch that - just read that you have Nevr Lube. Your option is just to change the bearing cartridge if you need to.

 

[Titanguy]

I'd wait until you hear from others who have had them. Also, I don't believe the Never Lube hubs are compatible with grease systems. I don't think Heartland uses these but I could be wrong. There should be stickers on the fenders that name the system you have.

The Nev-R-Lube axle has a different spindle so the only way to go to standard grease bearing is change the axle. They are not inter changeable.

 

[Mrsfish]

The Nev-R-Lube axle has a different spindle so the only way to go to standard grease bearing is change the axle. They are not inter changeable.

Interesting. Would that indicate that we had NevRLube BEFORE our conversion to the IS system and Kodak brakes? Going to pull our purchase paperwork tomorrow to see, but your comment would lead me to that conclusion as I know we did not replace the axles.

 

[Jim.Allison]

whats the difference between EZ lube with its zert and NevRLube? And I'm safe to assume that this whole topic IS about bearings?

Yes Wheel Bearings!!!!!!

The Neverlube is a sealed wheel bearing and cannot be lubed. The hub is different and will only accept a Neverlube bearing. If I remember correctly it is a rather large double tapered roller bearings.

http://fl.b5z.net/i/u/6149609/i/NRL-03.jpg

The EZ lube has a zerk on the tip of the axle, under your "hub cap" generally you can access it through a rubber cover in the center of the cap. The lube enteres the tip of the axle and travels through the hollow axle spindle and emerges behind the inside bearing just ahead of the seal. from there is migrates back through the bearings, hub and out of the hub just under the hubcap. In this manner you can see the old oxidized grease emerge as you pump grease through the zerk. If you use a bright red grease or some other distinct color like purple, or green (boat trailer grease), you can tell that the oxidized grease has been somewhat purged when the bright color grease shows. IMHO you must grease the EZ lube a small amount on a frequent basis in order to move old grease out of the system. Unlike hand packing a conventional system or EZ-lube, there is an advantage in that you start off with clean fresh grease throughout the system, it ages, then it is replaced again. IF you use the EZ lube zerk, and never hand pack you will have an average quality of grease on a consistent basis, as some has been in the system aging, and some is new, when adding grease to the EZ lube the oldest grease will be the first out (FIFO/first in first out).

http://www.theoempartsstore.com/images/T/20545IEU-dexter-ez-lube-endunit-01.jpg


Each system has it advantages depending on your preferences. Nothing will prevent you from having to raise your wheel and to the pull and shake test on your wheel and hub, you never have to lube the Neverlube, so just forget about it, and do the pull and shake test from time to time. It might last for the life of your rig, but it might not, hubs and bearing get mighty hot in some conditions and heat is the enemy of bearings and seals.

Hand pack if you are a stickler and you have the skills or can learn the skills, and you have the inclination to do it. There is a lot of RV ZEN to be had lubing your bearing by hand. It is probably the best unless WE owner's induce a problem by performing the maintenance.

EZ lube, you can pump a few squirts in on a frequent basis, and in this manner you put in new grease and purge the oldest grease, but your grease is going to seek an average "condition", Your grease will never be clean but it will always provide good lubrication.

OR you can use the EZ lube zerk and technique, and hand pack in the off season, which in the end sounds like the best idea, as I said before, the hand pack allows inspection, and preventative maintenance.

 

[Mrsfish]

Yes Wheel Bearings!!!!!!

The Neverlube is a sealed wheel bearing and cannot be lubed. The hub is different and will only accept a Neverlube bearing. If I remember correctly it is a rather large double tapered roller bearings.

http://fl.b5z.net/i/u/6149609/i/NRL-03.jpg

The EZ lube has a zerk on the tip of the axle, under your "hub cap" generally you can access it through a rubber cover in the center of the cap. The lube enteres the tip of the axle and travels through the hollow axle spindle and emerges behind the inside bearing just ahead of the seal. from there is migrates back through the bearings, hub and out of the hub just under the hubcap. In this manner you can see the old oxidized grease emerge as you pump grease through the zerk. If you use a bright red grease or some other distinct color like purple, or green (boat trailer grease), you can tell that the oxidized grease has been somewhat purged when the bright color grease shows. IMHO you must grease the EZ lube a small amount on a frequent basis in order to move old grease out of the system. Unlike hand packing a conventional system or EZ-lube, there is an advantage in that you start off with clean fresh grease throughout the system, it ages, then it is replaced again. IF you use the EZ lube zerk, and never hand pack you will have an average quality of grease on a consistent basis, as some has been in the system aging, and some is new, when adding grease to the EZ lube the oldest grease will be the first out (FIFO/first in first out).

http://www.theoempartsstore.com/images/T/20545IEU-dexter-ez-lube-endunit-01.jpg


Each system has it advantages depending on your preferences. Nothing will prevent you from having to raise your wheel and to the pull and shake test on your wheel and hub, you never have to lube the Neverlube, so just forget about it, and do the pull and shake test from time to time. It might last for the life of your rig, but it might not, hubs and bearing get mighty hot in some conditions and heat is the enemy of bearings and seals.

Hand pack if you are a stickler and you have the skills or can learn the skills, and you have the inclination to do it. There is a lot of RV ZEN to be had lubing your bearing by hand. It is probably the best unless WE owner's induce a problem by performing the maintenance.

EZ lube, you can pump a few squirts in on a frequent basis, and in this manner you put in new grease and purge the oldest grease, but your grease is going to seek an average "condition", Your grease will never be clean but it will always provide good lubrication.

OR you can use the EZ lube zerk and technique, and hand pack in the off season, which in the end sounds like the best idea, as I said before, the hand pack allows inspection, and preventative maintenance.

and if we have NevRLube- we do the tire shake and if they do shake, we.....? Replace THE NevRLube assembly?

 

[Titanguy]

Interesting. Would that indicate that we had NevRLube BEFORE our conversion to the IS system and Kodak brakes? Going to pull our purchase paperwork tomorrow to see, but your comment would lead me to that conclusion as I know we did not replace the axles.

Not necessarily, because they remove the old axle and replace it.

 

[Mrsfish]

Not necessarily, because they remove the old axle and replace it.

why would they replace the axle?

 

[danemayer]

Ann,

Heartland ships the larger coaches with Dexter axles that have EZ-Lube zerk fittings. I don't think they've ever used Never Lube axles.

MorRyde, when installing I.S., removes and discards the factory axles/bearings/brakes. The I.S. assembly is not an axle, but does have a spindle on which the bearings are mounted so the wheels can turn. The brakes mount on the I.S. assembly.

You may have ordered the I.S. with either Kodiak Disc Brakes or Dexter Disc Brakes, or you may have gotten just the I.S. If you got the Dexter Disc Brakes as part of a MorRyde special offering, you may have the Never Lube bearings. The 2016 Rally special had Never Lube available in the combo for Dexter and not for Kodiak.

 

[Mrsfish]

Ann,

Heartland ships the larger coaches with Dexter axles that have EZ-Lube zerk fittings. I don't think they've ever used Never Lube axles.

MorRyde, when installing I.S., removes and discards the factory axles/bearings/brakes. The I.S. assembly is not an axle, but does have a spindle on which the bearings are mounted so the wheels can turn. The brakes mount on the I.S. assembly.

You may have ordered the I.S. with either Kodiak Disc Brakes or Dexter Disc Brakes, or you may have gotten just the I.S. If you got the Dexter Disc Brakes as part of a MorRyde special offering, you may have the Never Lube bearings. The 2016 Rally special had Never Lube available in the combo for Dexter and not for Kodiak.

Fist off - thank you for spending the time to help me get this straight. I pulled the receipt and it shows "Inboard Nev R Lub generic sub assy; Kodak Disc/Hub 8k 4 bolt 9/16 wheel and other lines of smaller parts and labor."

 

[danemayer]

Sounds like you have Nev r Lube bearings.