ATF: Bighorn - 2014 Bighorn Axel Lubrication

[BigGuy82]

And you didn't earn anywhere near what you earn now. I think mine was about $3.99

It's OK - call me lazy, but pulling off four heavy a-- wheels, properly cleaning the old bearings with solvent, re packing with grease, remounting the heavy a-- wheels and cleaning up isn't my idea of a fun time. Roll it into a dealer and for a couple hundred bucks they'll do the job right, check everything else out and have you on your way. And, I used to be a mechanic.

However, if you enjoy this stuff, a bearing packer is a cheap way to get it right. I'll fix anything else on this coach, but messing with the very heavy suspension system is something I really like to avoid. To each their own ...

 

[farside291]

I understood that the Dexter EZ Lube axles have specially drilled hubs to allow the grease to flow from the zerk fitting to the inner bearing first, then through drilled channels to the outer bearing, then old grease is pushed out a hole in the front of the hub. How does this system blow the inner grease seal? I have used Buddy Bearings on boat trailers and they are nothing more than a replacement dust cap with a zerk fitting. Those will fill the cavity in the hub with grease causing overheated bearings and blown grease seals. EZ Lube axles are not the same...unless I have been misinformed.

 

[BigGuy82]

I understood that the Dexter EZ Lube axles have specially drilled hubs to allow the grease to flow from the zerk fitting to the inner bearing first, then through drilled channels to the outer bearing, then old grease is pushed out a hole in the front of the hub. How does this system blow the inner grease seal? I have used Buddy Bearings on boat trailers and they are nothing more than a replacement dust cap with a zerk fitting. Those will fill the cavity in the hub with grease causing overheated bearings and blown grease seals. EZ Lube axles are not the same...unless I have been misinformed.

So, I immediately called Heartland AND Dexter about this. You are absolutely correct. Further, once you manually repack(remove the wheels), you have to replace the seals if you ever want to use the EZ Lube system. In other words, don't hand repack if you are going to use EZ Lube.

That said, the mechanic in me says that you should still pull the wheels to inspect the seals, races and bearings. I'll just keep going for the manual repack. According to the Dexter manual - "NOTE: The convenient lubrication provisions of the E-Z Lube system and the oil lubrication must not replace periodic inspecton of the bearings." They don't give an interval for doing this, so just call me cautious - I'll keep having it done manually - grinding up an expensive axle isn't my idea of a fun time ...

 

[JohnD]

... grinding up an expensive axle isn't my idea of a fun time ...

We're getting ready to replace our third axle on two different Heartlands in just under a year and a half.

Might even do them both with an upgrade . . . not sure yet!

We did have one wheel bearing burnout, but the others have/had nothing to do with the bearings.

 

[BigGuy82]

We're getting ready to replace our third axle on two different Heartlands in just under a year and a half.

Might even do them both with an upgrade . . . not sure yet!

We did have one wheel bearing burnout, but the others have/had nothing to do with the bearings.

What happened to the axles? Just want to know what to look for.

 

[JohnD]

What happened to the axles? Just want to know what to look for.

The one with the wheel bearing happened while on the road away from home, so the RV repair center cut the axle in half, sent it to an axle shop to get the whole spindle and brake assembly replaced, then welded the axle back together to get us home.

It was also discovered on this trip that the trailer was bottoming out on the tires and in the end the axles and springs were under rated for the actual weight of the trailer.


Note weld in the center of the axle . . . and the wear on the bottom of the trailer


As for the Prowler, I noticed bad wear on the inside tread of the tires on the rear axle on our way to the Vegas Rally.

After the Dexter axle seminar, the speaker came over and had a look-see and told me the rear axle was 'flat' (ie.- lost it's camber).

Of course, he suggested that we had overloaded the axle . . . and also discovered that the trailer is towing 4 1/2 inches high in the front, which he also said could be the culprit, although I don't think that was the cause.



I had it weighed after we got home and the trailer itself is almost 1000 pounds under max.

 

[BigGuy82]

The one with the wheel bearing happened while on the road away from home, so the RV repair center cut the axle in half, sent it to an axle shop to get the whole spindle and brake assembly replaced, then welded the axle back together to get us home.

It was also discovered on this trip that the trailer was bottoming out on the tires and in the end the axles and springs were under rated for the actual weight of the trailer.

View attachment 48766 View attachment 48767
Note weld in the center of the axle . . . and the wear on the bottom of the trailer


As for the Prowler, I noticed bad wear on the inside tread of the tires on the rear axle on our way to the Vegas Rally.

After the Dexter axle seminar, the speaker came over and had a look-see and told me the rear axle was 'flat' (ie.- lost it's camber).

Of course, he suggested that we had overloaded the axle . . . and also discovered that the trailer is towing 4 1/2 inches high in the front, which he also said could be the culprit, although I don't think that was the cause.

View attachment 48768 View attachment 48769

I had it weighed after we got home and the trailer itself is almost 1000 pounds under max.

That's why I try to stop at a CAT scale every trip - get's me that verified printout.

 

[danemayer]

discovered that the trailer is towing 4 1/2 inches high in the front, which he also said could be the culprit, although I don't think that was the cause.

This drawing is exaggerated, but how much of the trailer weight is on the rear axle in this example?

 

[BigGuy82]

This drawing is exaggerated, but how much of the trailer weight is on the rear axle in this example?

View attachment 48771

All of it. However, here is the problem with the "too much weight on the rear axle" theory. When you are hitched, you are riding a little high. However, the axles are so close together, I don't see how an appreciable amount of extra weight is shifted to the rear. Some maybe, but both wheel sets are on the ground and I'd expect similar problems with the front axle also. When the coach is parked, you've got all six jacks down (in which case there is no weight distribution issue at the wheels. If you've got it stored with just the front jacks down, how much weight difference can there be between two axles that are so close together? Granted, if you were grossly overweight to begin with, the small percentage difference between the two axles may be enough to adversely affect the rear, but if you are within weight tolerance on the coach, the axles should have more than enough "margin for error" built in.

 

[danemayer]

It might be interesting to get some actual numbers. Maybe someone getting individual wheel weights in Goshen next June could request an extra set of readings on wheel weights while hitched by using the front landing gear to lift the rig a few inches.

Or maybe get 2 readings at a CAT scale.

 

[JohnD]

I will be getting it weighed again next time I pull it out of the yard.

However, here are the numbers from last time and scrunched by the numbers gurus here in the forum:

Truck and trailer combined 16,540
Trailer weight only 9,860
Tow vehicle only 6,680
Tow vehicle in towing configuration, with pin load 9,220
Pin load 2,540
Front trailer axle 3,480
Rear trailer axle 3,840
Total weight on tandem axles combined 7,320
Percent trailer weight on pin 26%

The Prowler has two 5080# axles, and I had way more water in the fresh tank than we've ever pulled with just to compensate for the empty refrigerator and to make it a more realistic load for the weigh-in.

 

[BigGuy82]

I will be getting it weighed again next time I pull it out of the yard.

However, here are the numbers from last time and scrunched by the numbers gurus here in the forum:

Truck and trailer combined 16,540
Trailer weight only 9,860
Tow vehicle only 6,680
Tow vehicle in towing configuration, with pin load 9,220
Pin load 2,540
Front trailer axle 3,480
Rear trailer axle 3,840
Total weight on tandem axles combined 7,320
Percent trailer weight on pin 26%

The Prowler has two 5080# axles, and I had way more water in the fresh tank than we've ever pulled with just to compensate for the empty refrigerator and to make it a more realistic load for the weigh-in.

I'm not a guru, so that might explain why this doesn't make sense to me. At 26%, your pin weight could be considered a little high (around 20% being "average" and all other weight specs are in tolerance), so you are "front heavy" if anything. Also, the difference in axle weights is only 360 lbs, so how can that be causing rear axle problems? When you say it's towing 4 1/2" high in the front, I don't see how that can bend (cause the axle to lose it's camber) the axle since your individual axle loads are fine.

Maybe one of those weight gurus could chime in so we can both get an education.

 

[JohnD]

I'm not a guru, so that might explain why this doesn't make sense to me. At 26%, your pin weight could be considered a little high (around 20% being "average" and all other weight specs are in tolerance), so you are "front heavy" if anything. Also, the difference in axle weights is only 360 lbs, so how can that be causing rear axle problems? When you say it's towing 4 1/2" high in the front, I don't see how that can bend (cause the axle to lose it's camber) the axle since your individual axle loads are fine.

Maybe one of those weight gurus could chime in so we can both get an education.

I'm thinking that when we bought the trailer we had our brand new tires from our old trailer swapped to this one, the tire shop our dealership used for this lifted the trailer with the axles.

 

[danemayer]

I'm not a guru, so that might explain why this doesn't make sense to me. At 26%, your pin weight could be considered a little high (around 20% being "average" and all other weight specs are in tolerance), so you are "front heavy" if anything. Also, the difference in axle weights is only 360 lbs, so how can that be causing rear axle problems? When you say it's towing 4 1/2" high in the front, I don't see how that can bend (cause the axle to lose it's camber) the axle since your individual axle loads are fine.

Maybe one of those weight gurus could chime in so we can both get an education.

I'm not a weight guru, but I look for simple explanations and I don't discount coincidences. So when you have a rear axle problem and you're 4.5" nose high, to me the dots seem like they might be connected.

 

[BigGuy82]

I'm thinking that when we bought the trailer we had our brand new tires from our old trailer swapped to this one, the tire shop our dealership used for this lifted the trailer with the axles.

This I can see - the weight thing, not so much.

 

[JohnD]

Here is a photo I took moments after we got home from Vegas where I measured the four corners:



I've seen many 5'vers towed much higher than this in the front, including many here on these boards that have not had rear axle issues.

It is hard to tell it is high in the front just looking at it . . . but the tape measure told the truth.

I'm going to drop the hitch one notch (about 2 inches) . . . should make it level.

Still trying to figure out how to do this . . . maybe I can fit my floor jack under it.

 

[BigGuy82]

Here is a photo I took moments after we got home from Vegas where I measured the four corners:

View attachment 48776

I've seen many 5'vers towed much higher than this in the front, including many here on these boards that have not had rear axle issues.

It is hard to tell it is high in the front just looking at it . . . but the tape measure told the truth.

I'm going to drop the hitch one notch (about 2 inches) . . . should make it level.

Still trying to figure out how to do this . . . maybe I can fit my floor jack under it.

View attachment 48777

Doesn't look bad to me, but level can't hurt.

 

[rhodies1]

The one with the wheel bearing happened while on the road away from home, so the RV repair center cut the axle in half, sent it to an axle shop to get the whole spindle and brake assembly replaced, then welded the axle back together to get us home.

It was also discovered on this trip that the trailer was bottoming out on the tires and in the end the axles and springs were under rated for the actual weight of the trailer.

View attachment 48766 View attachment 48767
Note weld in the center of the axle . . . and the wear on the bottom of the trailer


As for the Prowler, I noticed bad wear on the inside tread of the tires on the rear axle on our way to the Vegas Rally.

After the Dexter axle seminar, the speaker came over and had a look-see and told me the rear axle was 'flat' (ie.- lost it's camber).

Of course, he suggested that we had overloaded the axle . . . and also discovered that the trailer is towing 4 1/2 inches high in the front, which he also said could be the culprit, although I don't think that was the cause.

View attachment 48768 View attachment 48769

I had it weighed after we got home and the trailer itself is almost 1000 pounds under max.

You mention your axles are model 5080,I believe if you inquire they have a rating of 5200 lbs each,they are called 6000 lbs but actually are not.
Thats 2600 lbs per wheel,have you had each tire weighed at a scale,you will be surprised the variance per wheel,depending on where your fridge,counter, kitchen cabinets are located ,you maybe overweight per wheel which when addingwater to the tank,bouncing on the highway can bend your axle and throwing your camber out out. just a thought.

 

[BigGuy82]

You mention your axles are model 5080,I believe if you inquire they have a rating of 5200 lbs each,they are called 6000 lbs but actually are not.
Thats 2600 lbs per wheel,have you had each tire weighed at a scale,you will be surprised the variance per wheel,depending on where your fridge,counter, kitchen cabinets are located ,you maybe overweight per wheel which when addingwater to the tank,bouncing on the highway can bend your axle and throwing your camber out out. just a thought.

I don't know if what you say is correct or not, but I assume it is. If it is, I just want you to know up front that I'm not shooting the messanger - this rant is directed at the RV manufacturing industry, because so much of what you read on these forums indicates that knowledge of this type of arcane minutiae is required in order to "enjoy the RV lifestyle".

If what you said is indeed correct, the equipment that is required to complete a specific mission is not durable enough to do so. This axle was designed by supposedly qualified engineers to just barely eke by as long as conditions are perfect - no wiggle room. Not only do we need to worry about balancing this delicate box called an RV on each wheel (forget just side-to-side and front-to-back ... that's not good enough), we now have to worry about bending axles by bouncing on the highway. How do you rate an axle at 5,200 lbs but "call it" 6,000 lbs? How accepted would that practice be if, for instance, tire manufacturers advertised a tire at 120 mph but it really was only good up to 80 mph? As consumers, when we bend that axle, we can take the blame and the manufacturer gets to not honor the warranty. They just tell us it's our fault because they rated it at 5,200 but told us it is a 6,000 lb axle. Of course, from the consumer standpoint, why would most people think an axle was rated at 5,200 when they were told 6,000? Again, that's our fault because we didn't properly acquaint ourselves with every little detail of ownership. What are we supposed to do, go out and buy a set of wheel scales and measure the **** wheels everytime we take the beast on the road? Here's an idea ... why not realistically round out the spec on a 5,200 lb axle to 5,000 instead of UP to 6,000? Even better than that, how about designing an axle that is rated at 6,000 lbs but will actually support 6,200 lbs and can survive a bump in the road? How about designing a product that provides some margin for error?

At the end of the day, every driver (car, truck, RV) is responsible for their load. And yes, I know that every part has to have limits. But in this particular case, if I'm told in advertising that I'm using 6,000 lb axles, I don't expect a ration of BS because the "fine print" says it's really 5,200. To me, that's deceptive advertising at best.

That's enough ranting from me ... I'm going back to bed so I can get up on the right side and write nice things.

 

[danemayer]

this rant is directed at the RV manufacturing industry, because so much of what you read on these forums indicates that knowledge of this type of arcane minutiae is required in order to "enjoy the RV lifestyle".

If what you said is indeed correct, the equipment that is required to complete a specific mission is not durable enough to do so. This axle was designed by supposedly qualified engineers to just barely eke by as long as conditions are perfect - no wiggle room. Not only do we need to worry about balancing this delicate box called an RV on each wheel (forget just side-to-side and front-to-back ... that's not good enough), we now have to worry about bending axles by bouncing on the highway. How do you rate an axle at 5,200 lbs but "call it" 6,000 lbs?

Is the axle really rated at 5,200 but called 6,000? More likely the manufacturer uses a 6,000 part that's also labeled as a 5,200 lb part to reduce inventory and production cost.

I think it's fair to say there's quite a bit of speculation on many of these subjects.

Do you have to get into the minutiae? Some people want to. Others don't. When I was in Las Vegas, I asked the guy with 30+ years of axle expertise for his expert opinion on my situation and I trusted his answer. I could have dived deeper and looked harder, but in that case I chose to rely on the expert.