Fire Safety

[SouthernNights]

All very good ideas. Plans for escape, fire extinguishers, ladders.

The IRC (International Residential code) has fire sprinklers written in the code book for 2009. That means, if accepted, come July 1 2010 any new residential new construction will have to have a sprinkler system engineered and stamped just like commercial building do.

Just wondering if that is coming down the line for RVIA and how feasible that would be. Anyone have inside info on that or an opinion on how well that would work??

 

[rick_debbie_gallant]

All very good ideas. Plans for escape, fire extinguishers, ladders.

The IRC (International Residential code) has fire sprinklers written in the code book for 2009. That means, if accepted, come July 1 2010 any new residential new construction will have to have a sprinkler system engineered and stamped just like commercial building do.

Just wondering if that is coming down the line for RVIA and how feasible that would be. Anyone have inside info on that or an opinion on how well that would work??

IMHO all of these laws, codes, etc are nice but could also lead to complacency on the part of homeowners, etc.

The best deterrent to a fire is "prevention". If all sources of possible accidental fire causes are eliminated it would be hard for a fire to even start. That means smoking materials, candles, electric heaters, wood stoves, coal stoves, kerosene heaters, lighters, unattended cooking appliances, heating irons, electric and gas dryers, hair dryers, overextended electric outlets, etc., etc..... I have seen fires started by each one of these and they were fatal. I was there, I know. Be ever vigilant!!!!!

 

[JohnDar]

IMHO all of these laws, codes, etc are nice but could also lead to complacency on the part of homeowners, etc.

The best deterrent to a fire is "prevention". If all sources of possible accidental fire causes are eliminated it would be hard for a fire to even start. That means smoking materials, candles, electric heaters, wood stoves, coal stoves, kerosene heaters, lighters, unattended cooking appliances, heating irons, electric and gas dryers, hair dryers, overextended electric outlets, etc., etc..... I have seen fires started by each one of these and they were fatal. I was there, I know. Be ever vigilant!!!!!

You betcha! As for sprinklers in RV's, that would require a source of water and a means to disperse it available at all times. So, if you're boondocking, all you have is your fresh water tank (how many gallons are left?) and whatever power source that's available to run the pump. There may be technologies that could be put together to give a self-contained, almost fool-proof system, but the added weight, space allocation and cost would have to be taken into account. As for the IRC, the home builder's fought that tooth and nail. Don't think RVIA would be much different without some kind of government mandate.

 

[SouthernNights]

John

You are right about builders through the HBAs have fought the sprinklers.It was written into the appendage in 06. It is in the actual code for 09. I really dont think it will make it for 2010 but it may be a state by state acceptance.
I have mixed feelings about it. While it may be a good idea on paper, not sure if the industry is ready for the cost yet.

 

[JohnDar]

John

You are right about builders through the HBAs have fought the sprinklers.It was written into the appendage in 06. It is in the actual code for 09. I really dont think it will make it for 2010 but it may be a state by state acceptance.
I have mixed feelings about it. While it may be a good idea on paper, not sure if the industry is ready for the cost yet.

I think it's a great idea and from what I've read, the cost is not astronomical for a new build. But, having them is no guarantee of safety if complacency and stupidity are involved.

 

[rick_debbie_gallant]

Here is a thought: How about some flame resistant building materials? Or some type of a fire retardant applied to the finishes and cloth materials. Just some thoughts

 

[BIG_ZD]

I know you listed things that could start a fire. Does anyone know what is the majority cause of fires?

 

[kakampers]

In trailers, the main source of fires is the refrigerator, followed by the water heater and the furnance. As such, we too have purchased additional fire equipment from Mac the Fireguy like JM Gratz, however, we added one additional component....a Halon fire suppression system that is mounted directly into the back access of the fridge. It is designed to deploy when the temps in the fridge compartment reach 165 degreess...this system will immediately squelch any fire/flames. It's not cheap (around $200.00),but I'd rather have to replace the refrigerator, than risk our lives, or that of our pets.

We are also going to purchase a second system and mount it in the basement area, behind the wall, which contains the water heater, furnace and electrical equipment...it's our home and don't think we can be too careful....JMHO!

 

[JohnDar]

In trailers, the main source of fires is the refrigerator, followed by the water heater and the furnance. As such, we too have purchased additional fire equipment from Mac the Fireguy like JM Gratz, however, we added one additional component....a Halon fire suppression system that is mounted directly into the back access of the fridge. It is designed to deploy when the temps in the fridge compartment reach 165 degreess...this system will immediately squelch any fire/flames. It's not cheap (around $200.00),but I'd rather have to replace the refrigerator, than risk our lives, or that of our pets.

We are also going to purchase a second system and mount it in the basement area, behind the wall, which contains the water heater, furnace and electrical equipment...it's our home and don't think we can be too careful....JMHO!

That's interesting. A little more detail on your suppression system, if you don't mind. In saying that refridgerators are the main cause of fires, does your data indicate specifically why?

 

[GETnBYE]

We did a fire drill. had to force the hubby to do it

I insisted that we go in our camper after dark and turn off all the lights and see how fast we could actually get to the window and find the handle and also get to the door and UNLOCK it. You would be amazed at how hard it is to unlock the door if you are not frequent campers. After the first time we did the drill, hubby was not complaining so much when we went back and did it again to see if we could improve on our time and for each of us take turns at trying the locks. It is kinda scary in there in complete darkness, and imagine with the panic and being half asleep.

 

[porthole]

I know you listed things that could start a fire. Does anyone know what is the majority cause of fires?

This refers to residential fires.

Facts On Fire

Fire in the United States

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The U.S. has one of the highest fire death rates in the industrialized world. For 1998, the U.S. fire death rate was 14.9 deaths per million population.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Between 1994 and 1998, an average of 4,400 Americans lost their lives and another 25,100 were injured annually as the result of fire.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]About 100 firefighters are killed each year in duty-related incidents.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Each year, fire kills more Americans than all natural disasters combined.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Fire is the third leading cause of accidental death in the home; at least 80 percent of all fire deaths occur in residences.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]About 2 million fires are reported each year. Many others go unreported, causing additional injuries and property loss.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Direct property loss due to fires is estimated at $8.6 billion annually.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Where Fires Occur[/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]There were 1,755,000 fires in the United States in 1998. Of these:[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]41% were Outside Fires
    29% were Structure Fires
    22% were Vehicle Fires
    8 % were fires of other types[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Residential fires represent 22 percent of all fires and 74 percent of structure fires.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Fires in 1-2 family dwellings most often start in the:[/FONT]
  1. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Kitchen 23.5%[/FONT]
  2. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Bedroom 12.7%[/FONT]
  3. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Living Room 7.9%[/FONT]
  4. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Chimney 7.1[/FONT]
  5. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Laundry Area 4.7%[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Apartment fires most often start in the:[/FONT]
  1. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Kitchen 46.1%[/FONT]
  2. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Bedroom 12.3%[/FONT]
  3. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Living Room 6.2%[/FONT]
  4. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Laundry Area 3.3%[/FONT]
  5. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Bathroom 2.4%[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The South has the highest fire death rate per-capita with 18.4 civilian deaths per million population.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]80 percent of all fatalities occur in the home. Of those, approximately 85 percent occur in single-family homes and duplexes.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Causes of Fires and Fire Deaths[/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Cooking is the leading cause of home fires in the U.S. It is also the leading cause of home fire injuries. Cooking fires often result from unattended cooking and human error, rather than mechanical failure of stoves or ovens.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Careless smoking is the leading cause of fire deaths. Smoke alarms and smolder-resistant bedding and upholstered furniture are significant fire deterrents.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Heating is the second leading cause of residential fires and the second leading cause of fire deaths. However, heating fires are a larger problem in single family homes than in apartments. Unlike apartments, the heating systems in single family homes are often not professionally maintained.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Arson is both the third leading cause of residential fires and residential fire deaths. In commercial properties, arson is the major cause of deaths, injuries and dollar loss.[/FONT]

 

[porthole]

RV's on the other hand add all kinds of "extras"


12 volt DC, 110 and 220/240 AC circuits, generators, gasoline, diesel fuel, propane, systems that use propane to make things cold (fridge), systems that use propane to make things hot, batteries.
All of these items in a moving vehicle
Pests that like to eat PVC, which just happens to be one of the key ingredients that keep all of your electrical wires insulated from one another, etc, etc.

Plus you still have the same problems in residential fire, cooking and "improper or careless use of smoking materials (a favorite with investigators).

 

[kakampers]

That's interesting. A little more detail on your suppression system, if you don't mind. In saying that refridgerators are the main cause of fires, does your data indicate specifically why?

You can find the answers to your questions by checking out Mac's site. I am basing my comments on his classes and instructions, that show that in motorhomes the major source of ignition usually comes from the engine compartment, followed by electrical components. Trailers, however, have no engine compartment so their major source of ignition comes from electrical components...of which, the refrigerator is the culprit reported most often as the start of fires in towables.

The fires suppression system is a small canister than can easily be mounted in the rear compartment of the refrigerator, either vertically or horizontally. It uses Halon, which basically "sucks" the air out of the area, and therefore is not recommended for use inside the living area of an RV.
Having it installed has made me sleep easier, as I know it will stop a fire in it's tracks...especially while were sleeping...

 

[SouthernNights]

I don't want to take this thread away from RV's but Duane I am interested if you have any more current info on house fires, more specifaclly has the addition of hard wire smoke dectoctors etc. shown a decrease in fatatlities since 1998?

As far a the Halon goes behind the refridgerator=great idea. If you purchased it recently is it Halon you bought or a Halon alternative? I had a Halon system in my boat. Just before we sold I had a quote to get it serviced and was considering something else other than Halon. I think Halon is on the way out due to ozone depletion among other things.

 

[kakampers]

Just checked...it's definitely Halon. This is what came highly recommended by Mac.

 

[SmokeyBare]

Behind the Fridge it wouldn't have to be Halon, but it's probably the only type that discharges with out pulling a pin & the trigger. If the Fridge was the source of a fire... the fridge would be a total loss... no matter what amount of damage... doubt any repair center would trust it to be OK... after replacing a few parts.

The reason a boat uses halon in the engine compartment is an attempt to save the engine from sucking the ABC dry chemicals extinguisher powder into the intake and down to the engine cylinders. The extinguisher would need to be a type that will discharge just like a Sprinkler head does... when it reaches a given temperature.. but a high enough temp that it wouldn't go off from a build up of heat from the sun & the gas burner.

 

[jayc]

In reference to the building code requirement for a sprinkler system, let us not forget that we are RECREATIONAL vehicles that by HUD code are not a residence.

 

[kakampers]

Hey Marv...that's exactly right! The Halon Suppression system has a sprinkler head on it that goes off automatically at 165 degrees....hopefully it will never get that hot sans a fire on the side of the coach, even down here in the valley....

 

[Uncle Rog]

Unbelievable Fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Howdy, this is an occurance from Thurs, 10 Dec 2009.
The fir was in my ATV / Scout trailer, not the Horn...........
This is amazing, more than amazing...........This is Suzi's story of what happened, unbelievable! I did not include the pictures but when I got her call I raced home thinking that my "dope dealing" neighbor was messing with me. When I poked through the ashes I found the magnifying glass, the charred nylon tie downs and put the whole thing together. This is a one in a million story, this is how it went down...................

"I came home and saw a "camp fire" in the trailer, I raced down with my
class A fire extingusher (the green water bucket) and saved the
day...TAADAA....Note the chared magnifying glass...WHEW.."

There was just enough sun, at 55F, to create a fire. The 2x8 floor boards were damp but dry enough to ignite.................She ran down with her watering can for the indoor plants.............
I let her realize that there were 4 fire exstinguishers within 10 feet of her when she was filling her can.........She saved the day, straight up!

 

[wdk450]

Halon

I guess I am out of the loop on this, but years ago when original Freon was banned due to its effect on the ozone layer, I thought that Halon suffered the same ban. Now it sounds like it is availible again.