Ford F-250/350 or Ram 2500/3500

[porthole]

all I can take from such an overwhelming number of Rams is that commercial haulers are valuing different truck attributes than us campers.

Base model trucks with a base model price. Of the three, lowest to highest, Dodge, GM then Ford.

 

[scottyb]

Base model trucks with a base model price. Of the three, lowest to highest, Dodge, GM then Ford.

Same thing applies for hotshot rigs in the oil business.

 

[Jim.Allison]

QUOTE=Mastiffking;347959]So I did my homework. Feels like I know more about diesel engines than I ever cared to know. Our Logic, is that the $8300 for the Diesel, $4/per gallon, plus the cost of DEF, and the higher maintenance costs just weren't worth the benefits. When my wife looks at the truck she see's my commuter vehicle that occasionally pulls a trailer. And with that logic I had to agree. Plus around here gas is significantly less expensive. But man would I have loved to hear that diesel!!!![/QUOTE]

DEF is so cheap and you use very little of it. It is not a serious consideration. You cannot get the hp and torque for less $'s per mile than a diesel. So if you need that much HP and torque then the diesel is a better buy, I only paid a 6000 premium for my diesel so Im wondering where you are getting $8300. You will get that back on resale value. Look up best in class pickup trucks, buy a diesel, and you will be happy when you are not having to flog the **** out of your motor when pulling your fiver. "Think Cummins!" get in the right hand lane, set the cruise at 65 and turn the radio up. 6.7 liter turbo diesel will take care of the rest. As far as maintenance is concerned, the "Best in class truck has 15000 mile maintenance intervals.

Yes, the diesel is an $7995.00 option. WOW. Resale is where you recover that, a diesel with 200,000 miles is just getting started.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Two weeks ago we had our coach booked in at the factory for a week of warranty repairs. This required us to stay in a motel for 4 nights. We chose the Red Roof in Elkhart, because what doesn't kill me only makes me stronger. This is also the motel of choice for many of the RV transporters. What I saw during my 6:30 morning walks with my dog made a powerful statement regarding tow vehicles. The last morning that we were there, I made a count of the truck brands parked at the motel early in the morning. 13 Ram, 3 Ford and 1 GM. This was in sharp contrast to numbers that I see during my walks around any campground. Trying to be as unbiased as possible, all I can take from such an overwhelming number of Rams is that commercial haulers are valuing different truck attributes than us campers. I would imagine that cost of ownership, together with reliability would rank highest. I thought perhaps the DEF system issue would enter into the equation, but most of the trucks were pre-2011, so the choice between Ram and Ford would not factor in the DEF use issue.
Please note that I do not own a Ram, and I have no loyalty to any truck manufacturer. My post is strictly referring to truck numbers.

They are buying rams because they have less operating expense, and they are durable, and have resale value. There is one other thing, "Cummins Diesel Motor" there is no motor on the market today that compares to it. It is an easy 1/2 million mile motor with regular maintenance.

 

[porthole]

They are buying rams because they have less operating expense, and they are durable, and have resale value. There is one other thing, "Cummins Diesel Motor" there is no motor on the market today that compares to it. It is an easy 1/2 million mile motor with regular maintenance.

They are buying rams because they are less expensive to buy. These are work trucks, and luxury for the most part is not considered. I have yet to see a RV hauler using a Laramie, Denali or King Ranch to haul trailers back and forth.

The Cummins Diesel Engine is just another turbocharged, intercooled lightweight diesel engine, and although good, still doesn't put it in the class of the HD over the road or industrial diesels that are designed for 24/7 use at 80% load.

All 3 are good for the lightweight diesel market, with the Duramax probably holding a lead.

The Duramax has been around since 98-99 and was based on an industrial engine. Still in the same basic configuration as when first introduced, although with many improvements along the way.

The Cummins is next in longevity, but there was a major refit for the 2010 model year, so the reality is that the current Cummins is only a year older then the Ford 6.7.

The Ford 6.7 is the newest diesel among the 3. So far the 6.7 is doing well. Problems with it seem to mostly stem from fuel related issues causing expensive repairs that Ford is not jumping up and down to take care of. Dodge and GM have the exact same issues, but the manufacturers are covering the repairs.

Ford has had their issues with the 2 previous engines, but, in all fairness, GM did not get it right either with early domestic diesels and Dodge couldn't do it all so they out sourced to Mitsubishi to put a whooper of a 6 cylinder 165HP diesel in a body and frame that would barely last 100K.

When the Cummins was introduced it seemed like a good match, except for the body and frame issue. And those early Cummins had an issue or two.
You haven't seen anything until you see someone shoot some ether in a truck that won't start equipped with heated manifolds.

If you get a 1/2 millions on "any" of the 3 with just regular maintenance, consider yourself lucky. They are not 500K engines.

"Best in class truck has 15000 mile maintenance intervals" is nothing more then marketing hyperbole.

By taking the cost of ownership over lets say 200,000 miles and dividing it by 15K you get an overall reduced cost then a competitor that lists maintenance at 7500.

Cost ownership reached the sales field back in the late 70's and early 80's when the 3000 mile oil and filter change interval jumped to 7500 for oil only and 15000 for oil and filter.

For me, doesn't matter what badge is on the grill, I'll be doing my oil and filters every 6000-7000 miles, so "best in class" is my own class.

 

[mattpopp]

The Cummins Diesel Engine is just another turbocharged, intercooled lightweight diesel engine, and although good, still doesn't put it in the class of the HD over the road or industrial diesels that are designed for 24/7 use at 80% load.

All 3 are good for the lightweight diesel market, with the Duramax probably holding a lead.

The Duramax has been around since 98-99 and was based on an industrial engine. Still in the same basic configuration as when first introduced, although with many improvements along the way.

The Cummins is next in longevity, but there was a major refit for the 2010 model year, so the reality is that the current Cummins is only a year older then the Ford 6.7.

The Ford 6.7 is the newest diesel among the 3. So far the 6.7 is doing well. Problems with it seem to mostly stem from fuel related issues causing expensive repairs that Ford is not jumping up and down to take care of. Dodge and GM have the exact same issues, but the manufacturers are covering the repairs.

If you get a 1/2 millions on "any" of the 3 with just regular maintenance, consider yourself lucky. They are not 500K engines.

"Best in class truck has 15000 mile maintenance intervals" is nothing more then marketing hyperbole.

By taking the cost of ownership over lets say 200,000 miles and dividing it by 15K you get an overall reduced cost then a competitor that lists maintenance at 7500.

Cost ownership reached the sales field back in the late 70's and early 80's when the 3000 mile oil and filter change interval jumped to 7500 for oil only and 15000 for oil and filter.

For me, doesn't matter what badge is on the grill, I'll be doing my oil and filters every 6000-7000 miles, so "best in class" is my own class.

Obviously you are a Ford guy.

But you are considerably wrong on most things about the Cummins. The 6.7 Cummins is designed to run at high load for days on end. Which is why you find the same 6.7 cummins in farm equipment that do just that and M2 Frieghtliner trucks.

There is very little different from a 2008 6.7 to a 2014 6.7. Major difference is the after treatment for the exhaust.

Fords 6.7 from 2011 to 2014 is nothing close to perfect. Their Turbo design turned out to be a huge flop. Which is why they are going back to a similar Garrett design like they had in the 6.0.
It also lacks Torque in the high rpms. Naturally V8 diesels don't make low end power while most of the PSD power curve is in the middle. Kind of dumb if you ask me.

And Yes, Hot Shot drivers do use Denali, King Ranch, Laramie, and Lariat. Spend time in any Gulf coast Port or in the oilfield. They are all over the place.

I also have 12 F350

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[mattpopp]

Two weeks ago we had our coach booked in at the factory for a week of warranty repairs. This required us to stay in a motel for 4 nights. We chose the Red Roof in Elkhart, because what doesn't kill me only makes me stronger. This is also the motel of choice for many of the RV transporters. What I saw during my 6:30 morning walks with my dog made a powerful statement regarding tow vehicles. The last morning that we were there, I made a count of the truck brands parked at the motel early in the morning. 13 Ram, 3 Ford and 1 GM. This was in sharp contrast to numbers that I see during my walks around any campground. Trying to be as unbiased as possible, all I can take from such an overwhelming number of Rams is that commercial haulers are valuing different truck attributes than us campers. I would imagine that cost of ownership, together with reliability would rank highest. I thought perhaps the DEF system issue would enter into the equation, but most of the trucks were pre-2011, so the choice between Ram and Ford would not factor in the DEF use issue.
Please note that I do not own a Ram, and I have no loyalty to any truck manufacturer. My post is strictly referring to truck numbers.

Because RVers and Hotshot people are in the market for two different trucks.

RVers want pretty. RVers with no practical back ground of towing are much easier to convince on what they want. They don't care about the long term cost and reliability. As in general most RVers will trade their pickup off before 100k miles.

Hotshot drivers want a pickup that will last and be cheaper to operate. Nothing more, Nothing less.


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[porthole]

Obviously you are a Ford guy.

But you are considerably wrong on most things about the Cummins. The 6.7 Cummins is designed to run at high load for days on end. Which is why you find the same 6.7 cummins in farm equipment that do just that and M2 Frieghtliner trucks.

There is very little different from a 2008 6.7 to a 2014 6.7. Major difference is the after treatment for the exhaust.

Fords 6.7 from 2011 to 2014 is nothing close to perfect. Their Turbo design turned out to be a huge flop. Which is why they are going back to a similar Garrett design like they had in the 6.0.
It also lacks Torque in the high rpms. Naturally V8 diesels don't make low end power while most of the PSD power curve is in the middle. Kind of dumb if you ask me.

And Yes, Hot Shot drivers do use Denali, King Ranch, Laramie, and Lariat. Spend time in any Gulf coast Port or in the oilfield. They are all over the place.

I also have 12 F350

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I just lost most of what I had written .............

I am not an "insert brand here" guy. Last three trucks were Dodge, GMC and Ford. Next will be - don't know yet, but it most likely will not be a fiat.
And we know you are not a "ford guy", you just bought he best value for your buck at the time.

The C 6.7 in the light duty trucks is not the same application or crate engine that is in a combiner or M2.

No one has mentioned that the F6.7 was perfect. But, like the Cummins and Dmax, it is pretty good.

All three have done turbo changes over the past 15 years for either emissions, economy or performance.

Have yet to here a good reason from Ford as to why the 2015 turbo change, but hopefully it has to do with the woefully inadequate engine braking. As to being a "huge flop" - how so?

Cummins was ahead of the game with engine management which is why they are late coming into the DEF game.

Torque curves, reliable dynos are kind of hard to come by, but basic sheets look like this:
Ford 1600-2800 almost flat
Dodge 1400-2900 almost flat
GM peaks around 1600 then slowly falls off

No doubt inline 6's have some advantages, especially in the torque application, but the V-8's do have advantages as well.

And the general cost of vehicles had nothing to do with hot shot drivers in the area of oil fields and the gulf coast.
It had to do with RV deliveries types living and working out of the RV capital of the world around Elkhart. Guys that use their daily drivers to deliver RV's around the country.

 

[mattpopp]

When I bought my Ford a equal Dodge with the 850 engine was cheaper. So I don't get your value statement.

The Ford turbo has two flaws. First is the shaft. It is weak. If you bark it enough times the shaft will fatigue and fail. The major issue is the ability or I mean the lack of ability to move air at high altitude. The 6.7 struggles in high altitude due this turbo.

I assume most people like RVers probably don't notice as they tend to be brand loyal people.

What is different about the Cummins 6.7 from the pickup to ag use? Different calibrations? Maybe a different cut cam? The block is the same. Crank is the same. Bearings, connecting rods, Valves, all of that is the same. Because it is tune differently to make power at a predetermined rpm you will call it a totally different engine.

My point is that you need to get your facts straight before going off on a tangent.

I would love to see the print out for the Ford's dyno run that you speak of. Did you see that on a Ford website? Did Mike Rowe endorse it?

You are a very Ford guy. You struggle to see Ford's flaws and fabricate stories about Dodge. You are also a passive aggressive person by using Fiat rather then Ram or Dodge. You have a certain dislike for Dodge and people that defend them.

Me, I really just don't like GM. IFS is stupid. Very excited about the new 2015 Ford's as I have a reborn faith in them. But I am also excited about the changes that Dodge has done. GM is a follower that is 20 steps behind everybody else.

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[caissiel]

Who wants more HP anyway. When I drive my 6.0l Ford at more then 50% load the fuel mileage tanks.
Per Hypertech power curves my 6.0 torque is the same as the equally programmed 6.7 till 2000rpm. And I never tow pass that. I am happy with my $20000 truck bought 7 years ago and still worth as much now.
All this power hyp only cost more to do the same work.


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[Heathcote4]

As an unapologetic Ford guy who also works in manufacturing I don't think there is a thing wrong with brand loyalty.

In manufacturing, once a product is released it is hard to stay ahead of the curve for a long period of time. Most technologies are either copied or improved on. Patents can protect and existing design for a time but can't protect that design from being improved on. This is what makes innovation so cool.

I am a Ford guy because I lived through a headon at 65 with only a sprained MCL. My saying is I survived because of the good Lord and a good Ford. Dodge and GM do rhyme as well. Additionally I applaud the company for rebuilding their brand with NO government money. I was not driving trucks when Ford had their diesel issues so I cannot relate. Ford really jumped out front from a technology basis but to a large extent the other two are catching up. The new F150 body, although scary, shows the company is still willing to innovate. My opinion is that you cannot take risks when the government owns half your company.

The reality is I believe the technical differences between makes is marginal. If memory serves the new turbo on the '15 Super Duty is only going to provide a few dozen more HP and torque. Is a fractional increase in performance going to feel much different when there is a 15,000 behemoth behind you? I honestly don't know.

In sales we use marginal differences between our competitors to sell more units. I will say this, a catastrophic failure will kill brand loyalty quicker than its built. It would actually be wonderful if loyal customers were incentivized more. My family travels for free because large portions of my time on Southwest (on one now as I write this, WiFi on planes, SWEET!) I should get a bigger discount by sticking with a brand. Just a thought.

Like or love your truck, but do it for your own reasons.

Go Ford!

Josh


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[scottyb]

There was a time when Dodge trucks had almost laughable resale. They were ugly, uncomfortable, and cheap. Not so much any more. I actually think they are good looking trucks and the Laramie Longhorns have about as sweet of a truck interior as I have ever seem. I am extremely interested and excited about the new 1500's with the 3.0L Italian diesel. I test drove the 1st one in town and it was impressive. One of my dive buddies has had his for 2 weeks and says he's getting 23 mpg all city miles, so far. Bottom line, I was a Ford guy simply because they had no competition in diesel pickups until the late 90's. Not GM because they couldn't get diesel right and not Dodge because they had a good engine and a poor truck that you could barely give away. Then Ford slipped and I bought a GM. Now I like the new Dodge/Fiat/Ram.

 

[GOTTOYS]

I have a 2010 Ram with a Cummins. One of the things they don't tell you when you buy a diesel is the high cost of maintenance. Mine needs a fuel filter every 15,000 miles. Cost of the filter is now up to about $60.00 for the part. About $100.00 installed. Oil change? Every 5,000 miles cost around $90.00 at a dealer. Do it yourself...3 gallons of oil about $45.00, filter about $20.00....I'm currently in the middle of a required emission service. It was due at 67,500 miles. Even has an idiot light to tell you that. I let mine go a little past that and got a check engine light. Requires a new Crankcase vent filter, remove and clean the EGR valve, remove and clean the EGR cooler. Dealer gets $600.00-800.00 for this service. I paid $120.00 for the parts. My back is sore and I still don't have it all apart. Wish I had brought it to the dealer at this point...Oh yeah, Diesel fuel has been about $0.40 a gallon higher than gas for along time around here...Where's the savings? In just the last 4 years the tow ratings and GVWR have gone up in the new Rams to a point where they have more capacity than my diesel...I know what my next truck will have. I don't need anymore load capacity, my trailer's as big as it's going to get. Gasser is about 8K cheaper too....Don

 

[jassson007]

We bought both of our F350's simply because of the space in the back seat. If we have company ride with us wife has to get in back as I can't ride in back seat so she wanted comfort. There is more leg room in the ford than the other 2 with exception of the mega cab but I did not want a 5' bed. My choice would have been the D/A combo but have heard a lot of good about the new ram tranny.


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[Grey Ghost]

I have a 2012 Ford 250 6.0 gasser and just love it. I was a Chevy man for years, last one was a 8.1 gasser and it passed everything on the road except a gas station. It pulled anything I wanted it to pull. I went with a Ford this time because Ford never took a bail out and the price was the best I could find anywhere. I drove a chevy, a dodge and both Japanese brands. The foreign jobs just didn't have the power, the dodge rode very hard and the price on the chevy just could not compare. I got the Ford and just love it. The engine is great, the transmission is as good or better than the chevy plus the ride is great! Tons of room for everyone plus a few and it is a gasser, so much cheaper than the diesel on maintenance and fuel. I change oil for $19.95, how much do you pay for your diesel?

 

[JanAndBill]

25 years and a whole lot of Cummins, Cat, Detroit, Mac, Duramax, and Ford. They all had their good and bad. I drive Ford now because I've had decent luck with them and when I have a problem I know where to look and how to fix it. If I could figure out how to modify my Ford for durability the ideal combination would be a Cat hooked to an Allison tranny, for fuel a Detroit, and for ease of working on, a Mac.

 

[ramdually4100king]

I'll start by saying I've liked the look of dodge since I was three and could be herd saying "dam truks are dam tuff".

That being said I looked at Fords but when my wife's two month old ford leather car seat cracked/ teared and I was told by two different dealerships in two different states that they had to take pictures of the seats and send them into ford corporate I almost laughed. Then I received the response from ford corp. that stated the cracking/tearing seats in the photos were normal wear and tear and that they were not responsible for repairing the seats but for $350 each seat they would be happy to replace the seats.

I don't care what people say if I am spending $60000 on a vehicle I want a company willing to stand behind their products.

 

[whp4262]

I feel the same way about Ford as mattpopp feels about GM, I just don't like Ford and never did. But that's a personal preference and has little or nothing to do with the quality of the truck. My first choice is GM but they lost me as a customer for a few years because of their inadequate transmissions and inability to produce a good reliable diesel. My first Chevy diesel was the 6.2, it was under powered but reasonably dependable at the time. I overhauled the engine, transmission and transfer case at 180,000 and put another 100,000 on it after that before selling it to a farmer to pull his cattle trailer. The next truck was a Chevy with the turbo charged 6.5L diesel. It had a lot more torque then the 6.2 and overall it was a pretty good engine put the hp injection pump was junk and you couldn't tow anything in overdrive so the engine was always tached out at 55. Put 260,000 on that truck and 5 fuel injection pumps. That pretty much did it for me and Chevy. Next truck was the Dodge and 24 valve Cummins and I have to say that was my first truck with a good reliable diesel drivetrain however, the transmission was still the weak link. Put 260,000 on that truck and now my little brother is driving it. I have to say the Cummins was by far the best Diesel engine out of the bunch. I considered another Dodge just because of the Cummins but I've also been watching the Dmax over the years and decided to give Chevy one more chance so now I have the 3500 dually 4x4 Dmax so guess time will tell how well it holds up. Bottom line is you can research, ask questions and crunch numbers but at the end of the day it's your decision and no one else's on what truck to buy. It's pretty much all about personal preference.


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[porthole]

You are a very Ford guy. You struggle to see Ford's flaws and fabricate stories about Dodge.

Geeez Louise, get real.
No brand loyalty, not ford, not harley, not apple or any other high priced item we have. Heck, siting here looking at turn 1 at dover I must admit I don't have any driver loyalty, although I do have my favorites. But, I will root for anyone on the track that is in front of a toyo. Boring truck race yesterday.

More then once on this forum I have brought up the ford flaws, most particularly the way the FoMoCo have not stood behind customers with the high pressure fuel pump failures - that dodge and gm also suffer from. And the brakes, and the lack of an exhaust brake, and the loss of 2 MPG after a powertrain re-flash that I did not want and I am on my 3rd set of wheels that are corroding. And I bought my first extended warranty in a long time with this truck. But I still like it. Liked my GMC too. But, I also liked my very first brand new vehicle which was 1978 Dodge Powerwagon, and my Dakota, Tahoe and whatever else we had. Actually, I never disliked any vehicle we have had, just got tired of them. Although, my 74 Sportster was a piece of junk, and was glad to see it go when it did.

The Ford turbo has two flaws. First is the shaft. It is weak. If you bark it enough times the shaft will fatigue and fail. The major issue is the ability or I mean the lack of ability to move air at high altitude. The 6.7 struggles in high altitude due this turbo.

Turbo bark? Why even bring it up. With a stock vehicle it almost never happens and when it does, the factory intake system masks almost any indication of it.

And why does it happen in the first place? Although abuse might not be the correct term, loading up the engine and spooling up the turbo to max out boost and then letting go of the throttle is abuse in the same sense that flooring an oil cooled turbo to get up your driveway and then immediately shutting down the the engine is.

Turbo bark is a phenomenon with any turbo charged engine that can be operated the way cars and trucks can. Heck, you can't even get a Tier 2 or higher marine diesel to build up boost without the RPM's going up (think dead bollard pull where there is no forward motion).

Last time I checked, excessively making your turbo "bark" was tough on any compressor shaft, and the previous HX series Holset's on the dodge were no exception.

So, it lacked some power when at high altitudes and it took them 4 years to make a change. Living on the east coast means the highest altitude my truck will ever see is just over 6000'. Both my gmc and the ford ran about the same on those hills.

When I bought my Ford a equal Dodge with the 850 engine was cheaper. So I don't get your value statement.

I don't get "value statement" either, I said, given equal base models, in order of MSRP, it was dodge, gm and then ford. Negotiating with any of them when you shop by brand is difficult because all 3 use a different markup % to get to MSRP.

I would love to see the print out for the Ford's dyno run that you speak of. Did you see that on a Ford website? Did Mike Rowe endorse it?

Now who is off on a tangent? Dyno sheets are like coffee - everyone has their own brew and mix of milk and sugar.
I specifically said reliable sheets are hard to come by.

Torque curves, reliable dynos are kind of hard to come by, but basic sheets look like this:
Ford 1600-2800 almost flat
Dodge 1400-2900 almost flat
GM peaks around 1600 then slowly falls off.

And the average sheet you look at specially gives the cummins the advantage, holding a flat curve over the largest rpm spread, which is no doubt do to the inline 6 design. Same displacement, fewer cylinders, I would expect that.

Mike rowe is nothing more then a paid endorser reading a script that has a few "mis-facts" on the commercials.

Me, I really just don't like GM. IFS is stupid.

Now that is not fair to all of our GM brethren.
I did 90K in my GMC, rode pretty good with that IFS. My ford rides better, longer and heavier and more comfortable interior. But that front end on the bumps.......

Certainly rode better then any dodge I have owned or driven in my near 20 years in the new car industry. And I venture to say I have driven more varieties of and worked on more Cummins and Mitsubishi equipped dodge p/u's the then the average person. But that ended around 97-98 when I left that industry.

 

[Jim.Allison]

They are buying rams because they are less expensive to buy. These are work trucks, and luxury for the most part is not considered. I have yet to see a RV hauler using a Laramie, Denali or King Ranch to haul trailers back and forth.

The Cummins Diesel Engine is just another turbocharged, intercooled lightweight diesel engine, and although good, still doesn't put it in the class of the HD over the road or industrial diesels that are designed for 24/7 use at 80% load.

All 3 are good for the lightweight diesel market, with the Duramax probably holding a lead.

The Duramax has been around since 98-99 and was based on an industrial engine. Still in the same basic configuration as when first introduced, although with many improvements along the way.

The Cummins is next in longevity, but there was a major refit for the 2010 model year, so the reality is that the current Cummins is only a year older then the Ford 6.7.

The Ford 6.7 is the newest diesel among the 3. So far the 6.7 is doing well. Problems with it seem to mostly stem from fuel related issues causing expensive repairs that Ford is not jumping up and down to take care of. Dodge and GM have the exact same issues, but the manufacturers are covering the repairs.

Ford has had their issues with the 2 previous engines, but, in all fairness, GM did not get it right either with early domestic diesels and Dodge couldn't do it all so they out sourced to Mitsubishi to put a whooper of a 6 cylinder 165HP diesel in a body and frame that would barely last 100K.

When the Cummins was introduced it seemed like a good match, except for the body and frame issue. And those early Cummins had an issue or two.
You haven't seen anything until you see someone shoot some ether in a truck that won't start equipped with heated manifolds.

If you get a 1/2 millions on "any" of the 3 with just regular maintenance, consider yourself lucky. They are not 500K engines.

"Best in class truck has 15000 mile maintenance intervals" is nothing more then marketing hyperbole.

By taking the cost of ownership over lets say 200,000 miles and dividing it by 15K you get an overall reduced cost then a competitor that lists maintenance at 7500.

Cost ownership reached the sales field back in the late 70's and early 80's when the 3000 mile oil and filter change interval jumped to 7500 for oil only and 15000 for oil and filter.

For me, doesn't matter what badge is on the grill, I'll be doing my oil and filters every 6000-7000 miles, so "best in class" is my own class.

I don't really know where you get your information but the Cummins "B" block is not a lightweight motor. It is used in industrial application from boats to busses since its introduction in 1989. Nothing lightweight about it. The Cummins rotating assembly and head probably weighs more than the entire Ford diesel motor. Read up on it and you will find that it is not uncommon for a cummins to run way past 500,000 miles. As far as the truck being bought by haulers because its cheap is a flawed notion, all manufacturers have a base model and under your thinking you should see equal numbers on the highway. There is not a dimes worth of difference in the selling price of these vehicles. In the end the consumer determines the price by demanding x quality for x value. Show me anything about a Cummins or Duramax even remotely similar to this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EopM4ExiN_I