Half-ton trucks towing 5th wheels?

[JohnD]

This calculator makes it much more obvious and easy to understand just what we are doing. Thanks.

It's not so much about pulling. It's about maneuvering and stopping under stressful and emergency conditions. Until then, it's easy to be overconfident.

Exactly!

We had our white knuckle experience with our former Dodge Ram 1500 last August . . . and upgraded to a bigger truck (Chevy 2500HD) before our next camping trip!

And we aren't even pulling a 5th. wheeler!

I know some people here don't believe me when I say that it is not about what you can pull . . . but what can you stop!

I learned my lesson before it was too late . . .



First shot was taken about 30 minutes before the white knuckle experience near Estes Park, Colorado
Second shot two weeks ago near Las Vegas, New Mexico

 

[DW_Gray]

"I just had a tough time deciding which Ram 3500 CC 4x4 to choose. 68RFE or Aisin transmission. Short bed or long bed. SRW or DRW. I choose the long bed, DRW with Aisin. Using the calculator I am golden for towing my 15,500 GVWR 5th wheel. But, if I had chosen the 68RFE transmission, I would be right on the edge. The other options would have put me under."

"This calculator makes it much more obvious and easy to understand just what we are doing. Thanks."

I hope it's okay for me to quote your statements on the website. Could you provide your first initial and last name?

Thank you for your comments!

 

[jassson007]

I saw one for you today David. A neighbor at our home park was moving to a new job site and was having issues with his 3/4 ton ford v10 so he did not want to tow his 34' sob. He hired a guy for a reasonable price to move it. Well guy who was moving it showed up in a half ton s/b f150. You could tell he had done some mods as he had an electric fan and beefed up rear suspension. Told the guy I was glad that was not my trailer going on that truck. Have not heard yet if they made it to destination or not yet. Guy hauling brought a GN adapter and put on my friends trailer to hook to goose ball in bed. Hauler was also quick to say he hauled a 36 footer a thousand miles last week. Again glad it was not mine.


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[DW_Gray]

That doesn't surprise me. A few years ago, I arrived to a park at Columbia, CA. The majority of the park spaces where on the hillsides. Since I was going to be there a month, they wanted to put me on one of the hillside spots. They looked at my truck and decided to use there flatbed truck to park it. I tell you, I wasn't sure about the whole process. And it got worse when they drove up in an old F150 flatbed gasser. I took one look the springs and new what did happen. Well they hooked up and I watched the truck frame drop on the axle and the tires where budging. Needless to say, I was nervous the whole time I watched that old truck park 17,800 pounds. The short tow was up a pretty steep grade too. Oh, I wished my wife new how to record video on her phone at the time. She didn't get one video.

No, I'll never go back there again.

 

[Bogie]

I hesitated to weigh in on this because it's such a touchy subject. But, MTpockets got it right! The rating of the tow vehicle only matters in relation to what is being towed. You can overload anything.

Another issue that goes hand in hand with this is speed. I can't believe the number of folks with trailers and 5ers that go screaming by me on the highway. Overloaded or not, most of these won't be able to stop in an emergency situation.

It's like falling off a building... The fall won't hurt you. It's the sudden stop at the end.

 

[jeffdee]

I hesitated to weigh in on this because it's such a touchy subject. But, MTpockets got it right! The rating of the tow vehicle only matters in relation to what is being towed. You can overload anything.

Another issue that goes hand in hand with this is speed. I can't believe the number of folks with trailers and 5ers that go screaming by me on the highway. Overloaded or not, most of these won't be able to stop in an emergency situation.

It's like falling off a building... The fall won't hurt you. It's the sudden stop at the end.

I agree with you Bogie. Trailer tires are only rated for 65 mph. I am comfortable setting the cruise at 58 mph and staying in the outside lane. I might go to 60 if I can pace an 18 wheeler and get a little better mpg's. I understand that their only concern is not following close and staying in view of their mirrors. The majority of 2-lane highways are 55 mph or less. I have no problem with that either. When I am on vacation I am never in a hurry. I want the drive there to be part of the fun and not stressful. This is why I just upgraded to a dually for towing. There's nothing wrong with overkill in towing capability.

 

['Lil Guy']

Looking at your 2500 data my set up is within specs. All of these remarks about stopping confuse me a little. We have trailer brakes that will stop our truck with rig in tow. Seems the key here is to drive safely and allow extra distance for a sudden stop. Between our truck brakes, engine brakes and trailer brakes, I don't see a problem with size of truck stopping a rig under normal braking. (3/4 vs 1ton) In an emergency, that would be different. I wouldn't want to try to do a sudden stop with a 1 ton DRW truck hauling a 15K+ trailer. I've had to brake hard with my smaller unit once. I would like to hear from someone who has brought a big RV to a screaming halt. I would think you would have some serious push from the rear. Just curious if anyone has had this experience. I try to take my time and drive very defensively. I just can't imagine having to lock up the brakes with one of these in tow.
Thanks in advance

 

[danemayer]

Looking at your 2500 data my set up is within specs. All of these remarks about stopping confuse me a little. We have trailer brakes that will stop our truck with rig in tow. Seems the key here is to drive safely and allow extra distance for a sudden stop. Between our truck brakes, engine brakes and trailer brakes, I don't see a problem with size of truck stopping a rig under normal braking. (3/4 vs 1ton) In an emergency, that would be different. I wouldn't want to try to do a sudden stop with a 1 ton DRW truck hauling a 15K+ trailer. I've had to brake hard with my smaller unit once. I would like to hear from someone who has brought a big RV to a screaming halt. I would think you would have some serious push from the rear. Just curious if anyone has had this experience. I try to take my time and drive very defensively. I just can't imagine having to lock up the brakes with one of these in tow.
Thanks in advance

I had a screaming stop on I-80 a few years ago. Traffic had come to a sudden stop. Fortunately, my trailer brakes had just been replaced and were working very well. If that had happened before the brakes were fixed, it would have been a very different outcome.

While trailer brakes are supposed to be responsible for stopping the trailer, consider your stopping distance at 50 or 60 mph for just the truck, versus stopping truck and trailer. Way longer on the combination. Also consider that trailer brakes often aren't performing at 100% due to wear, poor adjustment, or grease contamination.

 

['Lil Guy']

That's my point exactly. Without good trailer brakes, I doubt that any truck including the 1T DRW could handle an emergency stop with that weight pushing you. Don't want to get off of the subject but in regards to the TB, I check mine by applying them at the controller when I'm starting out. Is this a true test of their condition? New at this and am curious. Again, always try to drive safe and defensive but in case of an emergency stop or evasive maneuver like a hard swerve, I guess the DRW would really come in handy. That's the reason I opted for our rig to match the 3/4 T rating with a little cushion.

 

[JohnD]

That's my point exactly. Without good trailer brakes, I doubt that any truck including the 1T DRW could handle an emergency stop with that weight pushing you. Don't want to get off of the subject but in regards to the TB, I check mine by applying them at the controller when I'm starting out. Is this a true test of their condition? New at this and am curious. Again, always try to drive safe and defensive but in case of an emergency stop or evasive maneuver like a hard swerve, I guess the DRW would really come in handy. That's the reason I opted for our rig to match the 3/4 T rating with a little cushion.

Ever notice how a truck and trailer combo always seem to attract those other drivers who like to pull in front of you and suddenly make a right turn into a driveway or parking lot barely a few feet away?

Or how about those other drivers who like to pass and cut you off as they get back in your lane with only a foot or two between them and your front bumper . . . then slow down?

All the defensive driving in the world or the best trailer brakes can't keep you away from those idiots . . .

 

[MTPockets]

I agree with you Bogie. Trailer tires are only rated for 65 mph. I am comfortable setting the cruise at 58 mph and staying in the outside lane. I might go to 60 if I can pace an 18 wheeler and get a little better mpg's. I understand that their only concern is not following close and staying in view of their mirrors. The majority of 2-lane highways are 55 mph or less. I have no problem with that either. When I am on vacation I am never in a hurry. I want the drive there to be part of the fun and not stressful. This is why I just upgraded to a dually for towing. There's nothing wrong with overkill in towing capability.

. Actually, there are trailer tires rated for max speed of 75mph. G614 Goodyear for example. Also, now some large 5th wheels have the H rated tires available.

 

[Lynn1130]

Those people get my bright lights in their rear view. The other one is hitting the brakes and then using your turn indicator. As my oldest daughter says "If you brake before your turn signals you get the horn".

I have found that my exhaust brake will take a lot of the excitement out of stops but those sudden stops, like a semi locking them up in-front of you at 65 mph really tests the rig and the brakes even with good spacing. Not the time to be over weight for your tow vehicle.

 

[DW_Gray]

Brakes, and other components, are an important issue that many half-ton owners fail to consider. Although I've known it from an engineering point, I finally discovered what I knew in writing. In a Ford manual, it states the following:

"Important: The towing vehicle's brake system is rated for operation at the GVWR - NOT GCWR. Separate functional brake systems should be used for safe control of towed vehicles and for trailers weighing more than 1,500 lbs. when loaded."

It's always been my belief that if one wants to be able to stop a trailer that lost its brakes in the same distance of unloaded pickup, you better be towing with at least an MDT, or even better, a HDT.

I've experienced stopping without my trailer brakes after the axles were replaced at Lippert. The truck brakes stopped me, but the hair on my neck was at full attention as I came so close the bumper ahead of me. After that experience, I turned around and went back to Lippert to get it fixed.

I had another experience when a woman, who was talking on her phone, suddenly stopped in front of me while only traveling about 30 MPH downhill. Fortunately, the number 1 lane was open. I got her attention and offered a few unsolicited choice words.

 

[Heathcote4]

It amazes me every time I get cut off leading up to a traffic signal.

Did the person seriously not notice the 50 plus foot of trailer and truck that he passed to beat me to the light.

 

[DW_Gray]

[UPDATE #2] The page for one ton trucks is now ready: Realistic One Ton Towing Capaicty

 

[branson4020]

Nice job Dave. I guess those of us pulling FWs with older Dodge Mega Cabs will just have to live with the fact that we are all way over our payload capacity .

 

[JanAndBill]

Brakes, and other components, are an important issue that many half-ton owners fail to consider. Although I've known it from an engineering point, I finally discovered what I knew in writing. In a Ford manual, it states the following:

"Important: The towing vehicle's brake system is rated for operation at the GVWR - NOT GCWR. Separate functional brake systems should be used for safe control of towed vehicles and for trailers weighing more than 1,500 lbs. when loaded."

It's always been my belief that if one wants to be able to stop a trailer that lost its brakes in the same distance of unloaded pickup, you better be towing with at least an MDT, or even better, a HDT.

I've experienced stopping without my trailer brakes after the axles were replaced at Lippert. The truck brakes stopped me, but the hair on my neck was at full attention as I came so close the bumper ahead of me. After that experience, I turned around and went back to Lippert to get it fixed.

I had another experience when a woman, who was talking on her phone, suddenly stopped in front of me while only traveling about 30 MPH downhill. Fortunately, the number 1 lane was open. I got her attention and offered a few unsolicited choice words.

I can't find the reference to back it up, but I've always been under the impression that the brakes on a fifth wheel were rated for the axle load, not the gross weight of the trailer. Meaning that the pin weight is transferred to the tow vehicle braking capacity.

 

[DW_Gray]

Nice job Dave. I guess those of us pulling FWs with older Dodge Mega Cabs will just have to live with the fact that we are all way over our payload capacity .

I know Bob & Joyce. I've talked to a few Mega truck owners about this surprise. I believe it is far more important that one knows their rig is overweight than one driving without a thought of their potentially unsafe condition. But then, I could be falsely assuming that one will change their driving habits after they learn about their overweight rig.

 

[DW_Gray]

I can't find the reference to back it up, but I've always been under the impression that the brakes on a fifth wheel were rated for the axle load, not the gross weight of the trailer. Meaning that the pin weight is transferred to the tow vehicle braking capacity.

Just like our tow vehicles, trailer brakes should also be held to the same standard. As far as I know, they are. It may be helpful if one of the Heartland RV techs could weigh in on this.

 

[JanAndBill]

Just like our tow vehicles, trailer brakes should also be held to the same standard. As far as I know, they are. It may be helpful if one of the Heartland RV techs could weigh in on this.

If they were, then trailer axles would be sized to carry the GVW, but as we all know they only carry a portion of the GVW. According to what I've read the 12x2 electric brake is 7,000# per axle.