How Necessary is a Weapon?
- Thread starter johnmichael
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Shortest Straw
Caught In A Mosh
Just to try and understand you, are you suggesting that the average person with minimal training is going to be able, in a fear for my life event, to assess their fear level and switch from non lethal to lethal force? If this is true why do concealed carry classes teach you when and how to safely deploy your sidearm and not your can of pepper spray first? My guess is because if you fear for your life, you just do.
You also said that non LEO's do not encounter the same people that LEO's do for the most part. If that were any kind of true crime would be almost non existent. When seconds count the police are minutes away. From my experience, and I have many years of it, law enforcement ends up taking a report more often than they actually save anyone. Not their fault that is just the way it is. I know this because while the LEO's are saturating a neighborhood looking for the perp, I am rushing the victim to the ER. I have actually sat on a side street for 10-15 minutes at times waiting for police to show up and declare a scene safe so I could go in and render aid. It may sound like I am bashing LEO's but I am not. I have the utmost respect for most of them and good long lasting friendships with many who have literally saved my life.
As I have stated before, I have been on just as many calls from law enforcement to treat them for pepper spray as I have criminals. I have been on way to many calls where the pepper spray and taser deployment had zero effect. None. Recently I went to a domestic where they tased and sprayed a 40 yo male numerous times as he was holed up in his garage after thumping his wife unconscious. Tox screen at the er, zero zilch nada. So with that being said, how can you advocate for an average citizen to consider pepper spray when they fear for their life, against someone who may be blown out of their mind on pcp? How is anyone even supposed to know there are drugs on board an attacker? How do you access an attackers pain threshold? There are many stories out there where LEO's use deadly force in the same situation and with back up.
It has worn me down as a person to see what people are willing to do to each other. Every. Single. Day. It saddens me how many people think that nothing bad will ever happen to them. It is disheartening to me how many people are not prepared to deal with those who wish to do them harm.
So you have been RVing for 20 years without anybody doing you harm, good I hope it stays that way. So you have never witnessed anything bad happen in a RV park, good I hope it stays that way. So these are the reasons you do not carry a gun? Ok I understand that to a point. Nothing bad is going to happen to you ever right? I hope so, I really do. I promise you though, should I be there when god forbid something bad does happen to you, I will be a good witness when the police show up, and I will grab my medic bag from my RV and do the best I can for you until EMS shows up.
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
Obviously you have not read all my post on this thread concerning this subject. When you do, get back to me and we can have a honest conversation about the finer points of self defense while RVing. I'm not going to rehash it by defending myself on what you "perceive" my stance is.
I will leave you with this; how do you recommend that a man defend himself and his DW against an imminent attack, when he does not fear for his life or grievous bodily harm? Do you advocate shooting an unarmed roadranger that is going to punch you in the nose or merely beat the heck out of you? If your frail, you can articulate the fear, but its hard for a guy like me to shoot an unarmed man and claim fear, especially with my background. Infact I would almost rather take the beating than to shoot someone given that scenario. IMHO, pepper spray is the weapon of choice in that scenario and is probably a more likely scenario, more likely than meeting Charles Manson in the forest.
Go back and read my comments on this subject and get the thrust of my argument, then we can talk. You are painting me as an anti-gun, anti-self defense person (perhaps inadvertently), and nothing could be farther from the truth.
BTW; YES I do expect any person carrying a weapon to be able to; explain the use of force model, retain his weapon, clear his weapon after a malfunction, identify when it is appropriate to use non lethal force or lethal force, be able to identify a target, hit a target, and to be able to transition from his nonlethal weapon (if available) to his handgun and back, reload, combat reload, understand cover and concealment, all while under stress. Lest an EMT visit him while laying on hot asphalt waiting for the police to arrive. (I realize that non lethal is not practical for everyday concealed carry permit holders, I'm not advocating that)
I will leave you with this; how do you recommend that a man defend himself and his DW against an imminent attack, when he does not fear for his life or grievous bodily harm? Do you advocate shooting an unarmed roadranger that is going to punch you in the nose or merely beat the heck out of you? If your frail, you can articulate the fear, but its hard for a guy like me to shoot an unarmed man and claim fear, especially with my background. Infact I would almost rather take the beating than to shoot someone given that scenario. IMHO, pepper spray is the weapon of choice in that scenario and is probably a more likely scenario, more likely than meeting Charles Manson in the forest.
Go back and read my comments on this subject and get the thrust of my argument, then we can talk. You are painting me as an anti-gun, anti-self defense person (perhaps inadvertently), and nothing could be farther from the truth.
BTW; YES I do expect any person carrying a weapon to be able to; explain the use of force model, retain his weapon, clear his weapon after a malfunction, identify when it is appropriate to use non lethal force or lethal force, be able to identify a target, hit a target, and to be able to transition from his nonlethal weapon (if available) to his handgun and back, reload, combat reload, understand cover and concealment, all while under stress. Lest an EMT visit him while laying on hot asphalt waiting for the police to arrive. (I realize that non lethal is not practical for everyday concealed carry permit holders, I'm not advocating that)
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Jim.Allison
Well-known member
The thrust of the OPs question was "how necessary is a weapon" I think the upshot is that it is prudent to arm yourself with some level of self defense. Be it lethal or nonlethal or both, it is a decision the individual has to make. I chose both, but I'm leaving the handgun out of my bag in favor of grandpa's shotgun, the political climate concerning handguns is just too volatile for me, although the end result would be the same in a deadly force situation. Long arms are almost universally accepted, although there may be some problem getting your long arm into Canada it is not insurmountable, one thing for certain is that you will not get your handgun nor your pepper spray into Canada from the USA.
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
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