How Necessary is a Weapon?
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Jim.Allison
Well-known member
I always liked Paul Harvey and his show "The Rest of the Story." There are long arms crossing into Canada everyday for competition, hunting, and just passing through to Alaska.
If an inspector ask me how many guns I own back home in Texas, I will certainly tell him, I might even show him some pictures of them. I cannot see any reason not to tell him. Having inspected many immigrants into the United States, I can tell you that many of those questions are designed to test your demeanor. You let them play with your mind by being put off by their questions. Be pleasant, and respectful. iIt will go a long way at a POE or checkpoint.
If an inspector ask me how many guns I own back home in Texas, I will certainly tell him, I might even show him some pictures of them. I cannot see any reason not to tell him. Having inspected many immigrants into the United States, I can tell you that many of those questions are designed to test your demeanor. You let them play with your mind by being put off by their questions. Be pleasant, and respectful. iIt will go a long way at a POE or checkpoint.
I know this is a serious topic that brings out a lot of strong opinions, but this thread made me think of a funny thing that we heard last week. We noticed that the campground employee who drives the "honey wagon" was carrying a 9 mm in a holster while emptying our tank. My husband asked him why he was carrying, thinking that there had been some recent trouble that we should be aware of - maybe intruders or even rabies. The guy replied very seriously that he always carries when driving the honey wagon in case it gets hijacked. I'm not sure how we kept from laughing then, but the image of the honey wagon being hijacked is still providing giggles to me! Think what terrorists could do with a convoy of honey wagons! 
jmgratz
Original Owners Club Member
I know this is a serious topic that brings out a lot of strong opinions, but this thread made me think of a funny thing that we heard last week. We noticed that the campground employee who drives the "honey wagon" was carrying a 9 mm in a holster while emptying our tank. My husband asked him why he was carrying, thinking that there had been some recent trouble that we should be aware of - maybe intruders or even rabies. The guy replied very seriously that he always carries when driving the honey wagon in case it gets hijacked. I'm not sure how we kept from laughing then, but the image of the honey wagon being hijacked is still providing giggles to me! Think what terrorists could do with a convoy of honey wagons!
Maybe he carries cash from payments from customers.
fdajnowicz
Member
For your sake, don't go speeding through Sheriff Joe's town, because justified or not you could be wearing the orange jumpsuit or pink underwear. To wish ill on your fellow man is pretty small of you. Having a drink/(non)prescribed medication and being pulled over by the local law can put you in the pink underwear.
scottyb
Well-known member
This is a true story about a DPS Trooper Sammy Long that was killed in West Texas. A hunter witnessed the shooting from a nearby roadside park, and took out the assailant with his deer rifle. I did not know officer Long, but several of my family members knew him and were very fond of him, from growing up in nearby Crane, TX. I never heard of the hunter's identity, but he was considered a hero of legendary proportion in West Texas.
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
I deleted my post about Sheriff Joe A. It really was not that important, and I feared a "nasty gram."
I think you should carry the fire extinguisher if you choose to pack the flare gun. Seriously, looking at the original question "how necessary is a weapon?" The answer is... hopefully never. But as a good friend of mine says, the only time you are ever going to wish you had a gun is when you don't have one. In that case come on over to my trailer, you can borrow one of mine.
Seriously, looking at the original question "how necessary is a weapon?" The answer is... hopefully never. But as a good friend of mine says, the only time you are ever going to wish you had a gun is when you don't have one. In that case come on over to my trailer, you can borrow one of mine.
'Lil Guy'
Well-known member
I've tried to stay away from this site but read it often. I think it is every bodies right to make their own decision on whether or not to own and carry a firearm. You would hope that anyone who does carry is proficient with it to the point that it would be second nature to use it if the need arises. Just about all states honor the Texas CHL. You try to stay away from situations where you would need it. But if the situation arose and you or your family were in danger for your life, would you be willing to use it? I, for one, have no doubt I would protect my family in any way I could. You hope to God the situation would never come up but I would definitely defend myself if need be. There are some sick people in this world and you try to stay away from them. That's my 1st defense. If you do decide you will carry a firearm, for $150.00 a year you can have a lawyer on retainer in any state, 24 7. Whether or not you want to cary a firearm, I recommend the CHL course for everybody. I think it will open peoples eyes. Just my 2 cents worth.
JohnDar
Prolifically Gabby Member
Here's an interesting read on using chemical sprays as your primary defense.
http://www.usacarry.com/want-avoid-...=gem7&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=n10292014
http://www.usacarry.com/want-avoid-...=gem7&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=n10292014
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
As an advocate of both lethal and non-lethal force, here is my critique on the article.
Having been sprayed multiple times at a police academy and having deployed pepper spray, I can tell you it takes a **** of a man to be immune from the effects of pepper spray. Infact I have never seen anyone immune from it, I have seen officers overcome the effects of it to a certain extent, but they were highly motivated because the training was centered around overcoming the effects in the event that your adversary used it on you, their ability to perform is highly diminished. The training is designed to illustrate to you how you might function having been sprayed. You might expect that, one might be able to punch a bag for 30 seconds to impress his boss. But these are not the kind of people you would deploy against, the people that you need to protect yourself from are pukes and punks. You are in an altercation with vermin not a tactical ops or swat team member.
None of his points are valid reason not to deploy pepper spray, but perhaps some are reasons to deploy a different defense. There is such thing as the escalation of force model. At the bottom non lethal, at the top lethal. At my home at 3:am there will be no pepper spray deployment, it will be a 12 ga pump shotgun loaded with 00 buck. the first round being a 1.25 ounce slug. I do not think that an advocate of pepper spray is suggesting you use it to fend off a rapist or an intruder. What they are suggesting is that you use non-lethal in non-lethal situations. I'm guessing 99% of any need for a weapon would fall to a non-lethal and 1% would fall to a lethal. All this is predicated on the off-chance that you need a weapon in the first place.
He mentions "tap rack bang," well its "tap rack and reassess" and if you can do that then you can deploy a non-lethal and transition to lethal. Transitioning is important, you should be able to transition from a non lethal (asp, pepper spray, baton, BB bat) to handgun, to shot gun and back to any selection you have available.
The real reason one must not rely on pepper spray, and it was not addressed in the pro gun anti pepper spray article, is that pepper spray is problematic when addressing multiple adversaries. But then I have already mentioned that perhaps another weapon should be deployed during that 1% chance when you fear for your life or grievous bodily harm.
Notice at the bottom of the article he advocates his gun selection and his knife selection. I gotta tell you, unless you are a trained knife fighter, I would not waste my time carrying such a knife. I would carry an extra magazine instead.
Having been sprayed multiple times at a police academy and having deployed pepper spray, I can tell you it takes a **** of a man to be immune from the effects of pepper spray. Infact I have never seen anyone immune from it, I have seen officers overcome the effects of it to a certain extent, but they were highly motivated because the training was centered around overcoming the effects in the event that your adversary used it on you, their ability to perform is highly diminished. The training is designed to illustrate to you how you might function having been sprayed. You might expect that, one might be able to punch a bag for 30 seconds to impress his boss. But these are not the kind of people you would deploy against, the people that you need to protect yourself from are pukes and punks. You are in an altercation with vermin not a tactical ops or swat team member.
None of his points are valid reason not to deploy pepper spray, but perhaps some are reasons to deploy a different defense. There is such thing as the escalation of force model. At the bottom non lethal, at the top lethal. At my home at 3:am there will be no pepper spray deployment, it will be a 12 ga pump shotgun loaded with 00 buck. the first round being a 1.25 ounce slug. I do not think that an advocate of pepper spray is suggesting you use it to fend off a rapist or an intruder. What they are suggesting is that you use non-lethal in non-lethal situations. I'm guessing 99% of any need for a weapon would fall to a non-lethal and 1% would fall to a lethal. All this is predicated on the off-chance that you need a weapon in the first place.
He mentions "tap rack bang," well its "tap rack and reassess" and if you can do that then you can deploy a non-lethal and transition to lethal. Transitioning is important, you should be able to transition from a non lethal (asp, pepper spray, baton, BB bat) to handgun, to shot gun and back to any selection you have available.
The real reason one must not rely on pepper spray, and it was not addressed in the pro gun anti pepper spray article, is that pepper spray is problematic when addressing multiple adversaries. But then I have already mentioned that perhaps another weapon should be deployed during that 1% chance when you fear for your life or grievous bodily harm.
Notice at the bottom of the article he advocates his gun selection and his knife selection. I gotta tell you, unless you are a trained knife fighter, I would not waste my time carrying such a knife. I would carry an extra magazine instead.
murry135
New York Chapter Leaders - retired
WOW Jim.Allison you could never be so wrong about pepper spray and Tap and Rack. 20 yrs of patrol work in a diverse environment and I have deployed pepper spray numerous times and there were the times it had no affect on the perp. There are factors which make the aggressor immune to the pepper spray. As for Tap and Rack it is terminology used when your gun malfunctions, i.e. stovepipe or misfire, and you use this method to clear the chamber and rack another round in, either in the ready position or the act of using your weapon. Do you have your HR 218? If so this is covered every re-cert.
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
Itemize your concerns. Perhaps you read my comment to fast. I made no errors. I'm confused by your hostility and effort to offend me. Whether or not I'm qualified under the LEOSA is not at issue here. I have infact qualified retired LEOs under LEOSA, and I really can't get the point you are trying to make there, If I need to clarify my comments for you I will most certainly do it.
You must have sprayed a lot of people with pepper spray to determine that it did not work. How many would you say you deployed on, and how many were not affected? How many were strongly affected? And if it was so ineffective why did you continue to deploy it?
Non LEOs are not going to encounter the same people LEOs do, for the most part as I said in my previous comment our encounters will be highly affected by pepperspray. It is an impossible scenario for non-leos to defend against perps who are intoxicated to the point they are not affected by chemical weapon, If they run into that then it is then that they will have to determine if deadly force is warranted then transition to the handgun in favor of the chemical weapon.
You as a LEO had multiple tools on your belt, baton, pepper spray, and side arm. Would you as an officer go into the field with only a handgun, or as a matter of practicality go armed with non lethal and lethal? Why would you advise members of this forum to abandon non-lethal in favor of only lethal based on your limited encounters with people that were able to "semi" resist pepper spray? What percentage of altercations encountered by RVrs rise to the level of some force? of those how many would rise to deadly force? eg 99:1, 50:50.
You must have sprayed a lot of people with pepper spray to determine that it did not work. How many would you say you deployed on, and how many were not affected? How many were strongly affected? And if it was so ineffective why did you continue to deploy it?
Non LEOs are not going to encounter the same people LEOs do, for the most part as I said in my previous comment our encounters will be highly affected by pepperspray. It is an impossible scenario for non-leos to defend against perps who are intoxicated to the point they are not affected by chemical weapon, If they run into that then it is then that they will have to determine if deadly force is warranted then transition to the handgun in favor of the chemical weapon.
You as a LEO had multiple tools on your belt, baton, pepper spray, and side arm. Would you as an officer go into the field with only a handgun, or as a matter of practicality go armed with non lethal and lethal? Why would you advise members of this forum to abandon non-lethal in favor of only lethal based on your limited encounters with people that were able to "semi" resist pepper spray? What percentage of altercations encountered by RVrs rise to the level of some force? of those how many would rise to deadly force? eg 99:1, 50:50.
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
Statistically speaking, is there anything we can put in our rig that has a higher impact on our safety than a gun?
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