Lippert Warranty Doesn't Care about safety!

[Bob&Patty]

Gerry, isn't it funny that no matter what happen's it's the owners fault.

1. you hit a pot hole.
2. your coach was overloaded.
3. you are turning too sharp.
4. your frame weld broke because it was overloaded.
5. your axles bent because you were overloaded.
6. so on and so on

How about this;

1. your springs are crap.
2. your spring hangers are too thin and bend.
3. your shackles are too thin and bend.
4. your quality control on welds is suspect
5. the quality of the steel you use is inferior
6. you have people that make promise's that they dont keep.
7. you will not stand behind your product unless pushed into a corner.

Someday, you will have someone get badly hurt because of your arrogance...............so shame on you.

Larry, good for you. Run with it and lets see what happen's. BTW, if you have time go back and get all the threads that were posted about frame and spring failures.

 

[boatdoc]

I'm back on line Larry. Been on the road and we're down in your neck of the woods. What do you need me to do? My back posts on Lippert componets should fill some pages. So far this trip the springs are just flat, not broke!!!
Your Bud, Gary

 

[Larryheadhunter]

Hi Gary, and thanks Bob for all those problems and your personal take on Lippert components. I am having a hard time finding these past threads and posts on Lippert problems, so please PM or Email me any of those pertain to our complaints before Tuesday.

Gary, I am glad to hear from you, I thought you dropped off the face of the earth. Where are you and Diana hanging out these days? Debbi and I are trying to plan a February trip for my 60th UGH birthday on the 19th. Anyone up for a party?

 

[geeksrus]

Suspension Failure

On our return to our home RV Resort from the Heartland B.C. Rally in June 2009 we first noticed the problem with the suspension on our Big Horn (BH). The tires on the door side had no gap & there was a strong rubber burning smell. Additionally, in each of these tires there were three major groves along the tread. The groves were caused by the tires rubbing against the slide mechanism bolts as the result of the unit sagging on the door side.

On further inspection, the leaf spring on the rear axle had a broken leaf along with the other 3 spring sets bowed upwards.

I then contacted Heartland (HL) and the Customer Service (HCS) representative asked we to send them an email with pictures and they would contact Lippert and the CS rep stated he would get back to me (BTW: he never did). He also suggested that I send the email to Lippert’s Warranty Service (LWS) as it was past the Big Horn’s warranty but was still within the timeframe of Lippert’s 2-year warranty.

Two days later I was contacted by LWS and they initially stated that as the BH warranty had expire they wouldn’t assume any responsibility… after some discussion (had to raise my voice) they then suggest that my unit was over-weight… again after more discussion (voice raised louder) they then said they would consider it to be a warranty claim. As I was in Canada, they authorized a local independent RV Technician to do an inspection & the work.

The next day the technician inspected the unit and recommended the replacement of all 4 spring sets along with the u-bolts, schakels, etc. Additionally the 2 damaged tires needed to be replaced and possibly the 2 from the other side. This determination could only occur once these 2 tires were removed from the unit & inspected by a tire specialist. The technician estimated it would take 4-6 hours to do the replacement work. Also, he recommended that once the replacement gear was installed to bring the unit to an axle specialist to thoroughly check the axles. `BTW: the technician indicated that we were extremely lucky that the tires hadn’t exploded causing much more severe damage. Thank you Michelin for your high quality Xribs.

LWS then indicated that they would send the replacement hardware, would only authorize 4 hours of labor & $65 per each of the 2 ruined tires. I told them to ship the hardware & I then started the uphill battle to get a more reasonable settlement. In the meanwhile, I purchased 2 new Michelin Xribs for 4 times as much as Lippert was prepared to compensate.

I then contacted my insurance company to see if they would cover any financial shortfall. A few days later their adjustor did an inspection & indicated that my policy did not cover this claim. He also made additional comments: we were very lucky that the tires didn’t burst & cause further damage or even cause the BH to flip; the broken leaf showed that it snapped at a single point of contact about the size of my small finger tip and was probably like that since the day the springs were installed; if Lippert didn’t come through I should consider legal action & he would gladly act as an expert witness.

During the 4 weeks I waited for the Lippert hardware to arrive, I escalated the compensation issue from the Warranty Service Representative (Lisa Goodwin) to the Warranty Service Supervisor (Michael Locke) without any luck.

At this time Jim Beletti became aware of my dilemma & indicated he/HL would work with Lippert to see if anything further could be done & someone from HL would get back to me.

After not hearing from either party for a couple of days I contacted Pamela VanderMel. After a few back & forth emails/phone calls she indicated that they would raise the compensation for the tires to $100 each… NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

In the meanwhile, the hardware arrived and was installed. Same crappy, made in China 6K spring sets. Also the Equa-Flex units didn’t have the zert fittings like the old units. As the technician knew I had an issue with Lippert in getting compensation, he gave me a break on his labor price.

As I wasn’t happy with Lippert’s latest compensation, I informed Ms. VanderMel that I’ll seek legal advice… VOILA she indicated that she would review the situation with the Warranty Director, Andrew VanSchoick.

Mr. VanSchoick contacted me a couple of days later and made me a more reasonable offer… not a 100% of what I was hope for but reasonable & acceptable. The next day I left Mr. VanSchoick a voice mail & sent an email indicating my acceptance. NOTE: my email very specifically indicated that all financials were in US funds.

Next I brought the rig to a suspension specially & had the springs replaced by their built 7k units… also upgraded the hangers, etc & had zert fittings installed at all strategic points. The also did a complete inspection of the axles. All of this out of my pocket but I feel safer that with the Lippert crap.

Finally, the cheque arrived and it was less than the amount I expected. Called Mr. VanSchoick & he indicated that the amounts he had discussed had been in Canadian funds & not US. This in spite of what my agreement email had indicated & they had never got back to me to indicate this was not correct.

I decided that there was no benefit in wasting more energy on this issue. I also decided that I use my energy to warn other folks about purchasing RV’s with Lippert components & to potential HL buyers that HL continues to include sub-standard components in their builds.

Eh!


BTW: during this saga I also wrote the CEO of Heartland... never heard back!


Larry this is the best that I can recall… probably missed some detail… best of luck on your quest.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Geeks, same thing here. Lippert agreed to pay something for the tires, but as of yet no check. It has been since last July. How did you get them to pay $100.00 for each tire. They offered me $75.00 each for 2 tires that had 2K miles on them. OH BTW, They paid for the labor and springs ( 7k up grade) on mine and installed wet bolts for free. There is not a standard as to how they repair their mistakes. Lippert is probably overwhelmed with warrenty claims for their crappy stuff. As you know HL is not the only coach builder that uses their stuff. We can only hope that they "get a clue" at some point. As I stated earlier, someone is going to get hurt or worse if they dont change how they do business. HL needs to put big time pressure on Lippert to change their ways or get out of the contract with them and find another frame builder. My 10ct's ...inflation and Im mad. Bob

 

[slmayor]

I don't have a dog in this fight as I've had no suspension issues, but as I told Larry on Friday,at the very least, I feel there needs to be some service policies developed by both manufacturers. Reading on this forum and the RV site, it is hugely inconsistent as to what happens when you DO have a problem.
Coming from a background in after-market automotive (that's Hot Rod) every manufacturer I dealt with had certain things you had to do to receive warranty assistance. Very simple. Read the instructions, supply part A, fill out return paper and send it away. Exclusions were printed on the return paper. Granted, it still wasn't as fast as some would have liked, but there was a set way to deal with parts failures. Did some still get turned down because they had abused the parts? Yes, but it was a specific exclusion that could be proven. IE: you forgot to put oil in the AC compressor before you ran it.
Are consistent, written policies too much to ask for? It seems it would save time on both parties sides and lessen frustrations.
The other thing I see missing here, is dealer involvement. Had I abandoned my customers after I made a sale, I'd have never made another. I went to bat for my customers with the manufacturer if I felt they were in the right. If they were in the wrong, I still gave them the best discount I could on the replacement part. My dealer did that for me. I had no major issues, but the things I did have, were taken care of with a list and some pics to the dealer, parts were ordered, I dropped it off and two weeks later I picked up the repaired unit. If these guys are able to come out of this recession, I'd certainly look there first for my next trailer and tell any friends who were looking. It seems most dealers subscribe to the "Hunter" method of sales vs the "Farming" method. Hunters make the quick kill and then go looking for the next game. A Farmer will nuture his crops, tend them and they will keep producing, growing and expanding.
Just my opinion. And I do love my HL, but things can always be improved.

 

[Delaine and Lindy]

Frames...........

I don't have a answer but I do know that when you go to Keystone (for repairs) at the service center they are weighing the 5th wheel before the repairs. I'm sure other manufactors will be doing the same. Our manufactor also uses Lippert and so does Keystone. So I'm sure if you do some research you will find some issues. And I have a paper showing the weight of each axle on both sides and the Landing gear weight on each side and the additional weight I can add to the 5 th wheel. Good Luck to all, I have a friend who went thru the experience of Frame roll and it wasn't nice at all. GBY....

 

[Ricoh]

All I want to say is good luck to you. I have not even picked up my new Bighorn and I am looking into new suspension parts already. I paid good money as we all did for our units of choice and Heartland should be backing us up better than they are. Perhaps they are waiting till someone gets badly hurt or worse till they open their eyes. Sure does not give me the warm and fuzzies about buying what I thought to be a top notch product. Again good luck and thank you for taking this on for all of us.

Rick and Joanne

 

[jayc]

Like Ray and Deb, I really don't have a complaint either. The only suspension problems we have had in our year of ownership were found by Lippert at the Goshen rally and repaired at their shop at no charge. they did install the wet bolt kit with no labor charge.

I just talked to a Montana owner who had similar problems with bad welds on his undercarriage and his pin box. Lippert didn't do much for him and he ended up with the Mor Ride independent suspension.

I think it might be time for Heartland to look at another frame manufacturer or possibly build their own frames. I don't know how cost effective that would be, but it might be cheaper in the long run. At least they could control the materials used in the frames/suspensions and the QC of the work.

 

[Mike Repp]

First, I want to say I like my Cyclone. That being said, I have been sitting on the side lines watching the posts on this thread. I am an owner of a Cyclone 3912 that I’m having tire/suspension issues with. I have kept quite because I’m currently working with HL and Lippert on some kind of resolution to my issues. However, with this thread being closed I thought I should bring my issues forward. I have blown four tires from April 09 to October 09.

When I blew the first tire (Goodyear) in April, I went ahead and replaced all six tires even though they still had plenty of tread and they were less than two years old. I took a trip in October and blew three more tires. I contacted Heartland and was referred to Lippert where I have been speaking with Dave Bice. I explained to Dave what has taken place with the tires and that my son had followed me one day and found the trailer was dog legging down the road.

He requested that I take the trailer to be measured to ensure that the frame is square and that the axles are square in the frame. The shop that preformed the measurements found that the rear axle on drivers side only had slid forward 1 ½” on the leaf spring. The bolt that holds the leaf spring together was completely gone. I went ahead and had this repair done on my own dime, to me this was a major safety issue. The shop also found that the axles were out of square ½” with the frame. Dave Bice is telling me this is within their tolerances. I left him a message on Friday morning and have not heard back from him.

Just so everyone knows I don’t use this as a toy hauler, I put my charcoal grill, bicycles, golf clubs, ice chest, and dog crate in the garage. These are not isolated issues with my trailer, but are reflected in others in this thread. Heartland and Lippert need to address the short comings with the frames and running gear. I should not have to go out and spend several thousands of dollars to upgrade the running gear to make it road worthy. These units should leave the factory with adequate frames, springs, axles, and tires. I have sustained damage to both sides of my trailer from the tire failures. I also have the same issue with water tanks many of the other Cyclone are having.

 

[lwmcguir]

We have never blown a G614 in all the years we have used them on heavy trailers. Much heaver than yours and our Augusta. That said, you have some serious issues and must be dragging the tires down the road sideways. Good luck with the repairs.

 

[Larryheadhunter]

CLARIFICATION FROM LIPPERT

Hey folks - I need to clarify something in this thread. Andrew VanSchoick can be called if you wish to have Lippert "re-address coverage on a matter they already worked with you on". Please do not call Andrew for assistance on how to fix a broken item on your RV etc. This is not what he handles and there is an entire team of people for that. Same for Andrew's manager, Pamela VanderMel. Please refrain from calling Pamela directly with questions/direction on how to fix an item.

For direction on issues you are having with Lippert products, please contact the Lippert Service and Warranty line at 866-524-7821.

When Andrew and Pamela get barraged with Service and Warranty calls instead of those calls going to a team of a couple dozen folks who are there for them, it makes it difficult for Andrew and Pamela to do what they are there for - to manage and direct their team and their processes.

Thanks for understanding

Jim Beletti




Hi everyone, I am sorry it has taken me this long to report back on my discussions with
Pamela VanderMel
Div #39, Service & Warranty
Lippert Components, Inc.
1-866-LCI-SVC1
pamelav@lci1.com
Fax: 574-312-6040

and Andrew VanSchoick Director of Warranty, who works directly under Pamela at Lippert 2 weeks ago and he wants me to let you know that he spoke to me to discuss my own concerns as well as the issues all of you are posting on my thread. His direct number is 574-312-6029 or (866) 524-7821 x6029 and he welcomes calls from anyone who is having a Lippert component problem to try to resolve these problems amicably. < SEE CLARIFICATION ON WHEN TO CALL ANDREW - ABOVE

When I told them I wanted to send them almost 100 posts and several PM's about Lippert component failures, they informed me they have been monitoring this thread since its inception, and have read them all. They are providing help to me personally with my issues, but want to speak with each individual directly and would not discuss every post that I was prepared to review with them. Honestly, this is an ongoing situation that they claim disturbs them, and they insist they will deal with each of you, if you calmly and pleasantly explain your Lippert problems.

They feel that they have done the best they can in the past with many Heartland owners with mixed results. They insist that they have addressed each problem that was brought to their attention, but also think that it is impossible to please everyone. They told me some stories about unnamed people that could not be satisfied no matter how they handled it, and also claimed that many people have walked away satisfied.

Interestingly, Lippert's position is that Heartland gives them orders that Heartland has designed, and they build them to HL specifications. I immediately brought up the point that they are the manufacturer, and they are personally responsible, as far as I was concerned, to build their units that were safe and well built, regardless of the specs of Heartland. They informed me that they follow safety standards but did not explain in detail, how they determine what their safety standards are, or if their designs are inspected or certified by any safety boards. I told them they should inform any of their customers if they think their specs are not up to safety standards. and should refuse to build them unless they were completely satisfied with the specs.

My position was that there have been too many Lippert components and products that have failed miserably, and their name and their brand has been tarnished and that they should take these posts seriously. I informed them if someone was to have a breakdown due to their products, as I did in Oregon, and were hurt or injured, or even worse, they could be held responsible, resulting in class action legal suits, and reports to safety boards, and other methods of retribution etc. They seem to have heard me loud and clear. They are not happy with all these problems and unhappy campers who expect their products to be safe and last for years. That is why calling Andrew or Pamela, (I suggest Andrew), to discuss your personal issues could very well result in a happy ending.

When I called, they were both listening intently to my complaints and very pleasant to me. They promise to listen to each problem and if possible, resolve your issues.

I am upset that they wouldn't go thru each post and address the continuing problems that seem to occur over and over again. But the good part is that they are aware of what's going on and do not wish to have a bad reputation. I am asking each and every one who is having Lippert issues to call Andrew and don't give up until you reach him. He is a really nice guy and reasonable, and he has authorized the complete repair and installation of all my personal problems with Lippert at no cost. I am not promising you will get the same result, but feel that they are now listening and I personally believe we will get some products improved in the future, and you just may get personal satisfaction. My advice is when you call, be prepared to discuss in a calm manner your exact problems with suspensions, running gears, and all Lippert components and whether it occurred during the warranty period or afterward. It's worth the effort of a phone call my friends.

Jim Beletti has promised me he will leave this thread open for several days so that Heartland owners can report back here the results of their personal discussions with the representatives of Lippert. I hope everyone gets the best results possible as I did, and feel that Lippert has resolved their issues.

Good luck and I am keeping my fingers crossed that Andrew is listening intently, and makes the effort to resolve your issues. I hope my efforts to bring to their attention all the Lippert failures will help each and everyone of you. And most importantly, Heartland management hopefully will make sure their designs are improved and that they stand behind their wonderful products and we all have safe trips. I plan to also call HL management this week and talk to the highest ranking management person I can find, to talk about these posts, which represent a small portion of people who have had Lippert issues and don't read this forum. I will report back my discussions as soon as I can.
Happy Camping everyone. I did my best and am sorry I couldn't get personal assistance for each and every one of you.

Please call Lippert and post the results on this thread.

 

[mrcomer]

Two important items I found from Larry's post

Larry,
I am very happy to hear that you have gotten a resolution to your issue. I hope all goes well from this point on.

I think it is worth while pointing out that Larry’s last post shines a light on two important things.

Number one is that Lippert is monitoring our posts here on the forum. I am sure that there are other forces at work here but still nice to hear that Lippert is listening. This is where this forum sets itself apart from all others. While it’s intention was not to directly solve problems between customer and manufacturer it sometimes just works out that way. Thank you for listening Lippert.

Number two is that how you approach Heartland or Lippert or whomever else with your concerns. “You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar” usually works best. For anyone who has had troubles with anything in the past, there is that feeling of anger, frustration, hopelessnesss and sometimes just scared and all alone. These feelings sometimes get channeled at the first person you turn to or call. Unfortunately this sometimes can cause undesirable results with regards to fixing your issues. While at first post Larry showed us this side of himself his later post has shown us that once everyone is in a good place that issues can be taken care of. Again Larry I am glad things are working out fof you and thank you for carrying the torch for others.

Thank you Larry, Jim, Lippert Heartland and others for listening to us here on the forum,

Mark

 

[Hunter11]

I just hope they (Lippert) are visiting other RV manufactures forums that use their frames monitoring for issues because there are others out there that are or have had issues. We are in the process of selling our trailer and looking for a new one and the number one thing I check on any new one we find that we like is who makes the frame and are they having issues. If so how are they being handled. I really hope they get things turned around so they can improve their image in the RV world.

 

[SouthernNights]

Larry,
I am very happy to hear that you have gotten a resolution to your issue. I hope all goes well from this point on.

I think it is worth while pointing out that Larry’s last post shines a light on two important things.

Number one is that Lippert is monitoring our posts here on the forum. I am sure that there are other forces at work here but still nice to hear that Lippert is listening. This is where this forum sets itself apart from all others. While it’s intention was not to directly solve problems between customer and manufacturer it sometimes just works out that way. Thank you for listening Lippert.

Number two is that how you approach Heartland or Lippert or whomever else with your concerns. “You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar” usually works best. For anyone who has had troubles with anything in the past, there is that feeling of anger, frustration, hopelessnesss and sometimes just scared and all alone. These feelings sometimes get channeled at the first person you turn to or call. Unfortunately this sometimes can cause undesirable results with regards to fixing your issues. While at first post Larry showed us this side of himself his later post has shown us that once everyone is in a good place that issues can be taken care of. Again Larry I am glad things are working out fof you and thank you for carrying the torch for others.

Thank you Larry, Jim, Lippert Heartland and others for listening to us here on the forum,

Mark

I was letting Larry's post sink in a little but I believe you just said it all. Good post Mark.

Larry, Good job getting your problem solved.

 

[porthole]

Hey Larry,

I forgot to reply back to you about my springs (from your email).

My 7K axles have 6 leafs, although the bottom leaf is only about 6-7" long and I don't it does much other then maybe spacing the axle a 1/2".

Mine are still in excellent shape - sitting in my shed

 

[beardedone]

Thanks for all your effort Larry. I was planning on taking other action as I felt deserted by both Heartland and Lippert. After reading your post I will certainly give Lippert a second chance to help me with my issue also. I am willing to work with anyone if they are reasonable and don't put up walls we can't get over.

 

[Mariposa]

Beardedone
We understand how you feel. broken springs, broken landing legs and dealers, Lippert and Heartland not wanting any more to do with a 2+ years trailer
May-be life in SOB with out Lippert under our feet might be in order for us
Bob

 

[beardedone]

Well I spoke with Andrew today at Lippert and he was nice to talk to, concerned and fair. We are working on a solution right now so I am pleased. I found Andrew to be thorough and fair and most importantly sincere. Many thanks to Larry for all your efforts.

 

[oppositelock]

Just thought I would add some pics of the old 4 leaf original springs and what I replaced them with. Although I didn't have a failure, my tme had run out for the original leaf springs after 13,000 miles and 3 years of either sitting around or bouncing down the highway.
Around $600 got these 7 leaf springsets installed.
I'm aware of other 3055RLs having spring problems and failures. The springs that usually break or go flat are mounted on the rear axle. I thought the Trail-air Equalizer was to prevent that. Any thoughts on that?