Pinbox Frame Flex (Again) in So. Ca.

[wdk450]

From what I've seen on the forum, most (not all) of these frame problems are on older coaches (pre-2011). It's not about how old the coach is - it's about the design at that time.

I think Lippert beefed things up some years ago - I'd guess maybe back in 2010. And Heartland has stood behind these older coaches even though they're often long out of warranty.

If you want to discuss structural design choices going back to 2008 or 2009, or why someone's coach has had repeat failures, I think you'd need to find a frame engineer. And to get a really good answer, it'll probably have to be a Lippert frame engineer. Responsible decision makers at Heartland don't necessarily have the skills and knowledge for the discussion you may want.

Dan:
Lippert's standard response to frame issues over the years has been: "We build the frames to Heartland drawings and specifications".

 

[carl.swoyer]

I think that the most impressive person in the Heartland family is Jim Fenner. He listens ,a man of his word. Very polite. If he says he will do something, consider it done.

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[Bones]

The latest news I have is this: I was emailed a form that requested specific measurements from the "I" beam at the bottom front of the trailer up to the point where the pin box is welded to the 2"X6" rectangular tube. The flex I reported was 3/8" on the off door side and 5/16" on the door side of the coach. I have been told verbally that Heartland agrees that they need to get it up to their facility and have the necessary work done to correct this issue. The verbal information shared with me informed me that the service department would cut open the walls so they can add more aluminum studs and wood and re-laminate with more glue and longer screws to beef up the wall structure and the attachment area to the steel frame and then Lippert would add gussets and other bracing etc. on the steel frame (which is their frame). I emailed Heartland this morning to see how we proceed from here and the reply was that all my information is being forwarded to management to get final approval and once they do that then transportation of the unit would be discussed and finally service would schedule an appointment. I will try to add pictures of my rig showing exactly what is happening.

After reading some of your posts where you have already had the rig back to the manufacturer and you are having problems again, confirms my fear that it is extremely difficult to adequately reinforce the neck area once the rest of the coach has been built around it. I do applaud Heartland for their willingness to work with us the customer to try to fix these issues. It is just very unfortunate that these structural issues arose in the first place.

Jay

P.S. The pictures showing the tape measure was taken with the trailer hooked up to my truck. And the measurements referenced above was the difference (flex) of when the trailer weight was on the landing gear and when the weight was on the hitch pin. The measurement grew by 3/8 and 5/16 of an inch. Jay

Jay what was the final resolution about your issue?

 

[socashj]

It has been interesting reading up on this thread. I've just discovered significant pinbox frame flex (increased distance when hooked up to my hitch) in my 2013 Sundance 3300CK. About 2/3" on the door side and only 1/4" on the off door side. I have it scheduled to go in to a local shop for pictures of the welds so that Lippert & Heartland can evaluate the problem & a path forward figured out. Heartland is being helpful... but as a new-to-RVing person, having this level of issue is a concern. Fingers crossed, but it is hard to be optimistic.

 

[ray587]

My 2012 Roadwarrior went to the factory service center last June for frame flex. It's still doing it just not as bad. Still cracking the caulk on the trim.

 

[StrongJava]

I'm not an expert for sure, but if I still had enough movement in mine to separate caulk seams, I would call the factory for discussions and re-work. I've been there twice and believe the processes they're using this year are improved over 2015. I can't speak to 2016, but I'm walking my seams very closely this time.

Cheers, Tim

My 2012 Roadwarrior went to the factory service center last June for frame flex. It's still doing it just not as bad. Still cracking the caulk on the trim.

 

[jnbhobe]

Mine was in Elkhart in April for the third time, so far it looks real good. We are going to Goshen next Friday.

 

[JEMSGEO]

Hello, Is this what is happening to your trailer, I just noticed this on mine, it is 3/4" flex from being on the truck to being off of the truck, Heartland just replied
that being it is a 2007, not original owner and not original hitch that they would not help fix it. Can anyone tell me where the flex I taking place so I know where to look for cracked welds? Thanks Jim

 

[StrongJava]

Hi Jim,

There are a number of possible places for the weld issues/broken frames to exist. Initially, Heartland told me something very similar. But when I took the front skin off, and took videos of the broken welds, they agreed to fix it.

For my repairs, they had to cut away the sidewalls and reinforce frames up high, nut just right at the pinbox. Each one is a little different I believe.

I would suggest talking with Heartland again. IMO, it is not something you or them want to have catastrophically fail on the highway.

Tim

Hello, Is this what is happening to your trailer, I just noticed this on mine, it is 3/4" flex from being on the truck to being off of the truck, Heartland just replied
that being it is a 2007, not original owner and not original hitch that they would not help fix it. Can anyone tell me where the flex I taking place so I know where to look for cracked welds? Thanks Jim

 

[JEMSGEO]

Hi Jim,

There are a number of possible places for the weld issues/broken frames to exist. Initially, Heartland told me something very similar. But when I took the front skin off, and took videos of the broken welds, they agreed to fix it.

For my repairs, they had to cut away the sidewalls and reinforce frames up high, nut just right at the pinbox. Each one is a little different I believe.

I would suggest talking with Heartland again. IMO, it is not something you or them want to have catastrophically fail on the highway.

Tim

Thank you, did you pull the nose cone also?

 

[StrongJava]

Thank you, did you pull the nose cone also?

I only took off the front skin. However, Heartland pulled back or took off the cone for the repairs.

 

[JEMSGEO]

I only took off the front skin. However, Heartland pulled back or took off the cone for the repairs.

Ok pulled the skin off around the hitch and the battery/gen area, I found no cracked or broken welds anywhere, no structural damage, this includes the pin box area all the way back into the battery box area were it connects to the frame. Anyone have any Ideas where to look next?? Jim

 

[jnbhobe]

Hook it up and watch what happens when you move it up and down

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[JEMSGEO]

Hook it up and watch what happens when you move it up and down

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Sorry I forgot to put on last time that was both hooked and unhooked, when lowering the only thing you notice is the gap between the cap and hitch shrink.

 

[socashj]

Sorry I forgot to put on last time that was both hooked and unhooked, when lowering the only thing you notice is the gap between the cap and hitch shrink.

The flex in mine is different from what I see in your photos. I just dropped my Sundance off at the factory service shop. They will be cutting into the sidewalks along the upper deck to access the areas most likely to have weld issues. All of the lower welds 'look' fine... but there can still be problems with the upper welds. Fingers crossed, all will be fine later this week. Good luck with yours too!

 

[RandyDeb]

A lot of good points made in this thread. What is disappointing to me is that so may rigs of the same model year are having the same issue and yet it appears that Heartland isn't seeing it as a structural design problem or frailer. Ok, so its 8 to 10 years old, so what! It was made to pull down the road not set in the driveway. I have a 2008 BH 3670 and the pictures in post 24 could have been take of my trailer. I also noticed that there is something going on in the floor about the center of the bed between the bed and the dresser that feels like the floor sheeting is not flush. Could the flexing frame go back that far? When I called the service department to see if anyone else had any problems like this, the gentleman I talked with acted like he had never heard of any issues before. The conversation was mostly over when he asked if I was the original owner of the trailer. (I'm not). However, I did get it from the original owner and his family is the owner of the dealership that the trailer came from when it was new. I paid some serous cash for this unit and expect to enjoy it for many years without having to buy it again every couple of years in maintenance fees because of design problems!


Not looking to hurt anyone's feelings but its not fun to be looking back to see if most of your investment is still behind the truck! I'll be making phone calls tomorrow

V/r
Randy

 

[StrongJava]

I can understand why Heartland wants to shift their focus to newer models. While I don't know how many they produced in 2008, anecdotally the numbers of frame incidences seem high to me (and others). The tactic of not acknowledging this issue is frustrating, but myself and others have also experienced that with Heartland.

The good news, I found, is that once you get into their system, they are very good to work with. I had to keep pushing, and show them videos of the damage before they finally agreed to take the rig into their repair facility.

Regarding the floor not being flush, that happened to mine when the catastrophic failure occurred. I also had damage on the wall by the bedroom slide out, but inside and out.

Good luck!

Tim

 

[TravelTiger]

A lot of good points made in this thread. What is disappointing to me is that so may rigs of the same model year are having the same issue and yet it appears that Heartland isn't seeing it as a structural design problem or frailer. Ok, so its 8 to 10 years old, so what! It was made to pull down the road not set in the driveway. I have a 2008 BH 3670 and the pictures in post 24 could have been take of my trailer. I also noticed that there is something going on in the floor about the center of the bed between the bed and the dresser that feels like the floor sheeting is not flush. Could the flexing frame go back that far? When I called the service department to see if anyone else had any problems like this, the gentleman I talked with acted like he had never heard of any issues before. The conversation was mostly over when he asked if I was the original owner of the trailer. (I'm not). However, I did get it from the original owner and his family is the owner of the dealership that the trailer came from when it was new. I paid some serous cash for this unit and expect to enjoy it for many years without having to buy it again every couple of years in maintenance fees because of design problems!


Not looking to hurt anyone's feelings but its not fun to be looking back to see if most of your investment is still behind the truck! I'll be making phone calls tomorrow

V/r
Randy

Being the second owner should not matter for frame flex issues, if you can show them that is what is truly happening. I know they have helped some second owners before.


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[danemayer]

The tactic of not acknowledging this issue is frustrating

"not acknowledging" seems to ignore that anyone who posts on this forum, which is owned by Heartland, gets immediate advice on how to deal with the possibility of frame flex. And there are many, many owners who have posted about Heartland fixing frame flex on their rigs, even many, many years after warranty has expired.

Yes, it is possible to call Heartland and reach a person who doesn't know a lot about problems on 10 year old trailers because he's been in Customer Service for 3 days.

Sometimes a 2nd call may be appropriate.

 

[jim rotman]

I took my 2008 Bighorn Model 3055 to Alaska this summer and had frame failure. Was in Anchorage when I noticed that the front cap was setting on the pin box. When I unhooked I would have 2 1/2" between the pin box and the cap. When I went to a repair facility and told the service manager what I had he just said another Lippert frame and that they see a few of these every year. He stated that they are just not strong enough for the rough road to Alaska. He wanted a frame drawing but when I talked with Lippert they could not find anything for the frame number that I have. Without a drawing the repair facility would not give me a cost estimate to repair and would not be able to work on it until winter.
I was diagnosed with cancer a year ago and needed to get back to Michigan for Dr appointment so left the trailer in Alaska and it will be sold for salvage.
I would advise anyone that has this year and model not to travel to far from the factory with it. I think from what I have read that Heartland has tried to take care of the problem but when you need to get it 4000 miles the cost to tow it is prohibitive.