sailun g goes bye bye......2200 miles on it
- Thread starter IronJ
- Start date
Doublegranch
Mountain Region Director-Retired
Here is what I am thinking about on PSI....After double checking the Goodyear PSI guide....
My Sundance has 6,000 lb axles....the goodyear guide for 3,000 lb per tire is 90 PSI...
Since I will not know my actual RV weight for a few weeks, I am assuming the full 3,000 lb per tire...
I know that will be way over, but think this is a better solution than my previous thoughts about keeping
the tire pressure at 110 psi...I think Marc was correct in not going to the max psi without weighing the RV.
Does this make sense to go at 90 psi, max rated for each wheel on a 6,000 lb axle?????
My Sundance has 6,000 lb axles....the goodyear guide for 3,000 lb per tire is 90 PSI...
Since I will not know my actual RV weight for a few weeks, I am assuming the full 3,000 lb per tire...
I know that will be way over, but think this is a better solution than my previous thoughts about keeping
the tire pressure at 110 psi...I think Marc was correct in not going to the max psi without weighing the RV.
Does this make sense to go at 90 psi, max rated for each wheel on a 6,000 lb axle?????
IronJ
Well-known member
Ok so I was going to wait to update until after my trip...but it's an off day and I'm bored...so let me finish my saga....
I took my rig to my local discount tire...THEY actually took care of the warranty process....
Now based on THIER inspecting and conversation with whoever warranties sailun, they concluded that one tire was NOT a manufacturer defect (aka I hit something or I overloaded tire) , but TWO showed sidewall bulges and irregular tread orientation indicative of improper manufacture (seams)..
Take that for what you will...I personally don't think it's a wide spread issue...
None the less, I asked my tire guy who I have known for 20yrs and was a mechanic for a racing team and now is a tire store owner HIS opinion of what he would do.....
His recommendation, based on all the hot shotters out here who run 100% over load and 25% over the speed limit was a "hartland" branded all steel G tire.....he has installed them all and these were the only ones that weren't throwing tread...
I wanted the goodyear tires going in...and he knew that...so when he recommended the hartland tire (a newer version of the gladiator) I was obviously skeptical....
I balked for a day and told him that it was my money and *** on the line so I had to be diligent...
He said ok...you have my recommendation, so I'll tell you what ..if you STILL want the goodyear (against my professional opinion) I'll put my *** on the line and sell you goodyear same price...but If you take the hartland I'll give you 3 free road hazard certificates...
Hmmm....
So I now have 7 new hartland brand g tires...4080 lb rated each and N speed rated (87mph)..
I have about 1500 miles so far on them and
1. They run cooler than sailun did by 3-4 degrees at same ambient temperature and pressure
2. They seem to be quieter than the sailun....maybe??..lol
3. I know I can get a replacement easily at any discount tire
Time will tell, I know and I'm keeping a close eye on them...
My dealer did say that he sees 1-2 g series goodyears a month that throw tread (he thinks it's due to speed)..and also said he gets 3-4 blow max a week!!!...
He had never heard or messed with a sailun...and that might be a good thing since they come standard on a lot of rigs now??..
So that's the update on my sailun saga....feel free to take what you want from my experience...i think any g tire is better than a blowmaximus!!!
sent from space via an invisible beam from a flying metal dish
I took my rig to my local discount tire...THEY actually took care of the warranty process....
Now based on THIER inspecting and conversation with whoever warranties sailun, they concluded that one tire was NOT a manufacturer defect (aka I hit something or I overloaded tire) , but TWO showed sidewall bulges and irregular tread orientation indicative of improper manufacture (seams)..
Take that for what you will...I personally don't think it's a wide spread issue...
None the less, I asked my tire guy who I have known for 20yrs and was a mechanic for a racing team and now is a tire store owner HIS opinion of what he would do.....
His recommendation, based on all the hot shotters out here who run 100% over load and 25% over the speed limit was a "hartland" branded all steel G tire.....he has installed them all and these were the only ones that weren't throwing tread...
I wanted the goodyear tires going in...and he knew that...so when he recommended the hartland tire (a newer version of the gladiator) I was obviously skeptical....
I balked for a day and told him that it was my money and *** on the line so I had to be diligent...
He said ok...you have my recommendation, so I'll tell you what ..if you STILL want the goodyear (against my professional opinion) I'll put my *** on the line and sell you goodyear same price...but If you take the hartland I'll give you 3 free road hazard certificates...
Hmmm....
So I now have 7 new hartland brand g tires...4080 lb rated each and N speed rated (87mph)..
I have about 1500 miles so far on them and
1. They run cooler than sailun did by 3-4 degrees at same ambient temperature and pressure
2. They seem to be quieter than the sailun....maybe??..lol
3. I know I can get a replacement easily at any discount tire
Time will tell, I know and I'm keeping a close eye on them...
My dealer did say that he sees 1-2 g series goodyears a month that throw tread (he thinks it's due to speed)..and also said he gets 3-4 blow max a week!!!...
He had never heard or messed with a sailun...and that might be a good thing since they come standard on a lot of rigs now??..
So that's the update on my sailun saga....feel free to take what you want from my experience...i think any g tire is better than a blowmaximus!!!
sent from space via an invisible beam from a flying metal dish
Doublegranch
Mountain Region Director-Retired
IronJ:
I can't find where the country of origin is for the Hartland Tires, do you know?
What do you mean by "all steel tire" ? All steel belted radial? If so, I thought the goodyear G 614's are all steel belted..
I read where this tire was created for Discount tire is that true?
I can't find where the country of origin is for the Hartland Tires, do you know?
What do you mean by "all steel tire" ? All steel belted radial? If so, I thought the goodyear G 614's are all steel belted..
I read where this tire was created for Discount tire is that true?
IronJ
Well-known member
I think that may be true...supposedly "you know how that goes" it is a newer version of the gladiator qr35.....and yes...probably branded for discount/America's tire...I'm pretty sure it's a China tire.(as is a sailun)..but let's be real..goodyears are made EVERYWHERE.....yes..all steel belts and sidewall...
Its a big beefy tire...61+ lbs and is retread able....and n speed rated!!....
I don't know much more than that about it either, but truth be told sorting out the tires is a pain...I've spent well over 10k on .tires and rims THIS YEAR with this guy...and I been buying there for 10 years...so in the end I trust his long term experience and advice.....he would not steer me wrong for profit....matter of fact I know he does not make much when selling me stuff...first off I'm a cheap bastard, and second I service Half his employees at my business and I take care of them likewise...
Anyway...
Like I said before, any decent g rated tire is leaps and bounds over a blowmaximus
Only reason I went away from sailun is that I can't buy one within 200 miles of my house!!..
I was leaving on a trip Thursday and had to make a decision the wed before ....so availability was another issue...I contacted simple tire and they could not have me new tires before my departure...
But discount is everywhere....I'm 1500 miles away in Kalispell Montana and I drove by one today...
I'll have an easy 4k miles on these by the time I'm home...
I'm in no way promoting these tires or saying they are better than sailun...BUT my tire guy did say goodyears are notorious tread throwers....
On a side note, and somewhat ironic when I stopped in Raton nm, the gentleman in the diesel pusher next to me recognized my trailer from the discount tire....he had pulled in for a thrown tread on his rig while mine was jacked in the sky getting 7 new tires....he remembered my liscense plate (relxn)...
His tires were goodyear and the rubber marks on his nice Paint looked bad......lol
sent from space via an invisible beam from a flying metal dish
Its a big beefy tire...61+ lbs and is retread able....and n speed rated!!....
I don't know much more than that about it either, but truth be told sorting out the tires is a pain...I've spent well over 10k on .tires and rims THIS YEAR with this guy...and I been buying there for 10 years...so in the end I trust his long term experience and advice.....he would not steer me wrong for profit....matter of fact I know he does not make much when selling me stuff...first off I'm a cheap bastard, and second I service Half his employees at my business and I take care of them likewise...
Anyway...
Like I said before, any decent g rated tire is leaps and bounds over a blowmaximus
Only reason I went away from sailun is that I can't buy one within 200 miles of my house!!..
I was leaving on a trip Thursday and had to make a decision the wed before ....so availability was another issue...I contacted simple tire and they could not have me new tires before my departure...
But discount is everywhere....I'm 1500 miles away in Kalispell Montana and I drove by one today...
I'll have an easy 4k miles on these by the time I'm home...
I'm in no way promoting these tires or saying they are better than sailun...BUT my tire guy did say goodyears are notorious tread throwers....
On a side note, and somewhat ironic when I stopped in Raton nm, the gentleman in the diesel pusher next to me recognized my trailer from the discount tire....he had pulled in for a thrown tread on his rig while mine was jacked in the sky getting 7 new tires....he remembered my liscense plate (relxn)...
His tires were goodyear and the rubber marks on his nice Paint looked bad......lol
sent from space via an invisible beam from a flying metal dish
travelin2
Pennsylvania Chapter Leaders-retired
Last year upon returning from Alaska to MT one of my GY was showing signs of a slipped belt. The local Les Schwab store, they are not a GY dealer, sold me 4 new Gladiator g rated tires instead. Like IronJ says, ALL steel, heavy, max 95 psi. Yes China made but with US QC staff on hand, ex BF Goodrich CEO, website detailing their involvement with China manufacturer. The Les Schwab guy said they mount these on all the local stock trailers and have very few returns. And if you've ever seen how those ranchers roll with those...
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It seems to me that every tire dealer claims excellent service out of whatever tires that he just happens to have in the store at that time.
That and the brand with the highest margins.
What would you expect them to say, "These tires are crap, but I have them in stock"?
The way you are treated when they have a problem (all of them can or will) is what gives me faith in one brand over another.
That and the brand with the highest margins.
What would you expect them to say, "These tires are crap, but I have them in stock"?
The way you are treated when they have a problem (all of them can or will) is what gives me faith in one brand over another.
IronJ
Well-known member
I don't think that is the case necessarily. There are like 10k different brand of tire out there....
Much like in my retail shop, it is not logical nor profitable to carry EVERY brand of everything...especially when the differences are so small.
So we carry a broad selection of things I personally feel good about that provide a good value to the customer and profit to me.(it is a business after all lol)
But as any good business owner I want to build a relationship of good referrals and repeat business...not just a one time money grab....
So what happens is there may be 10k brands, but I have PERSONAL EXPERIENCE using a select few with clients that continually perform as I claimed they would, and I feel comfortable recommending them even if there are 5 others that are the exact same.
Sure not every business Is run this way all the time, and sometimes customers are not happy because the money they wanted to spend was not in line with the reality of product they wanted....but once again a good business sells value, not just "cheap" or "profit driven"
In the end I trust my tire guy...I know tires very well, but I don't deal with 100s of customers and have the real world feedback he does...
So I went with a hartland all steel g load rated, n speed rated, 4080lb capacity , 110 psi tire
Total cost for me (discounted of course) was about 1400$ for 7 tires mounted, balanced, and completely road hazard covered.
He offered to get me whatever I wanted, but would have to order it (just like we do in our retail store) there were lots of other tires I could have chose from ...
In fact there were 4-5 options in stock to choose from...ultimately rather than blind guess based on Internet warrior postings, I took the professionals opinion.
Well see if I regret it....I doubt it tho. This tire has the reps,company and specs behind it...not just another China bubble gum wobbler
sent from space via an invisible beam from a flying metal dish
avvidclif
Well-known member
Methinks your tire dealer is also an independent and not part of a corporate chain telling him what to push... BIG difference. He will be there tomorrow and the day after and can't afford to lead customers wrong. The chains shuffle employees monthly it seems like and the new hires are told what to push.
I didn't mean to imply that specifically about your deal, you obviously have a great relationship with your dealer and I'm sure he is going to treat you right.
I'm making a general statement about corporate tire shops with a commission sales program like Discount, NTB, etc.
They pretty much sell what the corporation tells them to sell.
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
Kinda the same with the Hi Run ST tires I have on our Prowler . . .
We had purchased them (along with five new wheels) when we had the axles and springs replaced on our previous Heartland Trail Runner last year, and one week and 80 miles later we traded that trailer in for the Prowler, and rather than keeping the factory supplied BlowMax tires, I had them swapped out.
I had never heard of Hi Run tires, but the repair shop/trailer builder that did the axle replacement for us highly recommended them and said he puts them on every trailer he builds and has not had an issue ever with them.
Here is their website: http://www.trailermadetrailers.com/
After searching the net about them I found that lots of horse trailers come from the factory with them and I could only find one bad review about them at that time.
We've got about 3500 miles on them, including a trip to Tucson, AZ and back and they still look like new!
I would buy them again.
We had purchased them (along with five new wheels) when we had the axles and springs replaced on our previous Heartland Trail Runner last year, and one week and 80 miles later we traded that trailer in for the Prowler, and rather than keeping the factory supplied BlowMax tires, I had them swapped out.
I had never heard of Hi Run tires, but the repair shop/trailer builder that did the axle replacement for us highly recommended them and said he puts them on every trailer he builds and has not had an issue ever with them.
Here is their website: http://www.trailermadetrailers.com/
After searching the net about them I found that lots of horse trailers come from the factory with them and I could only find one bad review about them at that time.
We've got about 3500 miles on them, including a trip to Tucson, AZ and back and they still look like new!
I would buy them again.
BigGuy82
Well-known member
Doublegranch
Mountain Region Director-Retired
I sent an email to a retired Tire engineer regarding PSI for G614's based on the Sundance weights.
Also sent and email to Goodyear Corp regarding their recommended PSI for the Sundance weights.
Hope this will give me a final answer and no longer have to guess if I keep the tires at 110 psi or
adjust based on the max weights of my axles etc. IE 6,000 lbs each.
I know the G614's are overkill for this rig but hope to enjoy the margin of safety during all my travels.
I will make a follow up post once I receive a response.
Also sent and email to Goodyear Corp regarding their recommended PSI for the Sundance weights.
Hope this will give me a final answer and no longer have to guess if I keep the tires at 110 psi or
adjust based on the max weights of my axles etc. IE 6,000 lbs each.
I know the G614's are overkill for this rig but hope to enjoy the margin of safety during all my travels.
I will make a follow up post once I receive a response.
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
They are the infamous TowMax tires that are so beloved around these parts.
Just type 'Towmax' in the search bar and read away!
CarterKraft
Well-known member
Ultimately you are right to do whatever makes you sleep good.
When I went to Discount (my trusted tires source for 20+years) they tried to steer me to the Hartlands as well. I had set my mind on Sailuns so I really wasn't interested in the Hartlands. I told him I would look them up and so I did. I found they are really probably about the same thing as the Sailuns and I couldn't find anything good or bad about them. At the time I actually found less info than for the Sailuns from Hartlands corporate site.
The discount guy had no qualms about the Hartlands at all. They couldn't get close to the price however so I went forward with the Sailuns.
And until you had trouble I felt great about the purchase LOL.
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When I went to Discount (my trusted tires source for 20+years) they tried to steer me to the Hartlands as well. I had set my mind on Sailuns so I really wasn't interested in the Hartlands. I told him I would look them up and so I did. I found they are really probably about the same thing as the Sailuns and I couldn't find anything good or bad about them. At the time I actually found less info than for the Sailuns from Hartlands corporate site.
The discount guy had no qualms about the Hartlands at all. They couldn't get close to the price however so I went forward with the Sailuns.
And until you had trouble I felt great about the purchase LOL.
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mlpeloquin
Well-known member
GoodYear shows 80psi for 3042 pounds. 90psi shows 3300 pounds. So your covered with 90psi with a 10% margin. They will probably tell you 80psi.
Doublegranch
Mountain Region Director-Retired
I had an interesting email from the tire engineer that really opened my eyes...I will share it once I get through his tire safety article that he wrote....
Doublegranch
Mountain Region Director-Retired
Okay...since tire inflation has so many opinions, I contacted both Goodyear Corp and a tire engineer on this subject. Here is a safety article he wrote. Also Goodyear Corp response was to keep the tires at 110 psi even though each wheel on the Sundance will never carry the amount of weight the G614's will accommodate at 110 psi...Read below and that may help understand why. At the end you will see a video Keystone put out on tire torque.
"Interply Shear" and other Techno Babble
I have been putting this topic off for quite some time as I was worried about overloading you with too much "Techno-babble" but I find myself having to constantly repeat this information in individual posts on various RV forums I monitor so figured it would be easier to do a complete post that I could direct people that want to understand why the loading of some trailer tires is much more complex than the average person thinks.
To make this less painful I will give the Bottom Line info first, so those not interested, can stop reading before I put them to sleep.
BOTTOM LINE
When a radial tire is loaded, the belts and body have to bend from a round shape to a flat shape in the area that contacts the road. In addition when you turn a corner the forces generated to move the RV sideways have to be transferred through the tire structure.
This causes additional bending of the belt and body structure. The more the bending the higher the stretching of the rubber. With enough stretch, microscopic cracks form and existing cracks get bigger. Eventually with enough cycles and enough force the cracks may grow and join up with the possibility of tire components separating which could lead to a tire failure. You can lower the stretching if you lower the bending and you can lower the bending if you increase the inflation.
So now on to the Engineer Speak and Techno Babble
If you own a multi-axle trailer these forces can be much higher than those seen on a tow vehicle, motorhome or car, where the tires are not close together but at the corners of the vehicle.
I found an excellent video that shows the results of these forces at Keystone RV. Watch the section from time 0:46 to 1:07 and note that the tires on one axle bend inboard while the others are forced outward.
Special consideration for multi-axle trailers. Warning, this gets technical.
When not driving in a straight line there are special side loads on multi-axle trailers because the tires are fighting each other because they are not "pointed" to the center of the radius of the turn. These loads cause interior structural tearing. Sometimes 24% higher loads than those seen in tires on non-trailer application. Initially tearing is at the microscopic level but with time and repeated cycles these forces grow which can lead to small cracks at the belt edges as seen here at the arrows.
If not spotted these cracks continue to grow to almost the full width of the tread as seen below.
If you are lucky you will see the bulge in the tread as seen here and now you know this tire has failed and MUST be removed AT ONCE as the separation can grow and can cause a belt to come off the body of a tire.
You can lower these forces by either decreasing the load 24% on the tire (probably not something you want to do or may not be able to do) or you can increase the inflation to stiffen the structure and decrease the slip-angle. In this case you could increase the tire inflation from the minimum inflation needed for the static load to the inflation associated with the max tire load as molded on the tire sidewall. BUT you need to be sure you are not exceeding the max rating of the wheel.
So the best recommendation I can give to trailer owners is to run the inflation molded on the tire sidewall. For owners of a TV or motorhomes, I recommend you run the inflation needed to carry the actual measured tire load plus at least a 10% margin.
Attachments area
Preview YouTube video How To: Maintain Proper Lug Nut Torque on a Keystone RV
How To: Maintain Proper Lug Nut Torque on a Keystone RV
I have been putting this topic off for quite some time as I was worried about overloading you with too much "Techno-babble" but I find myself having to constantly repeat this information in individual posts on various RV forums I monitor so figured it would be easier to do a complete post that I could direct people that want to understand why the loading of some trailer tires is much more complex than the average person thinks.
To make this less painful I will give the Bottom Line info first, so those not interested, can stop reading before I put them to sleep.
BOTTOM LINE
When a radial tire is loaded, the belts and body have to bend from a round shape to a flat shape in the area that contacts the road. In addition when you turn a corner the forces generated to move the RV sideways have to be transferred through the tire structure.
This causes additional bending of the belt and body structure. The more the bending the higher the stretching of the rubber. With enough stretch, microscopic cracks form and existing cracks get bigger. Eventually with enough cycles and enough force the cracks may grow and join up with the possibility of tire components separating which could lead to a tire failure. You can lower the stretching if you lower the bending and you can lower the bending if you increase the inflation.
So now on to the Engineer Speak and Techno Babble
If you own a multi-axle trailer these forces can be much higher than those seen on a tow vehicle, motorhome or car, where the tires are not close together but at the corners of the vehicle.
I found an excellent video that shows the results of these forces at Keystone RV. Watch the section from time 0:46 to 1:07 and note that the tires on one axle bend inboard while the others are forced outward.
Special consideration for multi-axle trailers. Warning, this gets technical.
When not driving in a straight line there are special side loads on multi-axle trailers because the tires are fighting each other because they are not "pointed" to the center of the radius of the turn. These loads cause interior structural tearing. Sometimes 24% higher loads than those seen in tires on non-trailer application. Initially tearing is at the microscopic level but with time and repeated cycles these forces grow which can lead to small cracks at the belt edges as seen here at the arrows.
If not spotted these cracks continue to grow to almost the full width of the tread as seen below.
If you are lucky you will see the bulge in the tread as seen here and now you know this tire has failed and MUST be removed AT ONCE as the separation can grow and can cause a belt to come off the body of a tire.
You can lower these forces by either decreasing the load 24% on the tire (probably not something you want to do or may not be able to do) or you can increase the inflation to stiffen the structure and decrease the slip-angle. In this case you could increase the tire inflation from the minimum inflation needed for the static load to the inflation associated with the max tire load as molded on the tire sidewall. BUT you need to be sure you are not exceeding the max rating of the wheel.
So the best recommendation I can give to trailer owners is to run the inflation molded on the tire sidewall. For owners of a TV or motorhomes, I recommend you run the inflation needed to carry the actual measured tire load plus at least a 10% margin.
Attachments area
Preview YouTube video How To: Maintain Proper Lug Nut Torque on a Keystone RV
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